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Feedback: Chemist Poll Results, Freeday Change, Ninja Tweak, & Bug Fixes

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by ningeek212, Nov 24, 2018.

?

Which freeday change would you like to see?

  1. No change (Keep freeday the same)

  2. Rotate the groups once per week

  3. Rotate the groups once per game (Best of 3 maps)

  4. Rotate the groups once per map

  5. Don't have an opinion

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. ningeek212

    ningeek212 Yoshi Legend and Medic Main

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    Chemist Poll Results
    After the chemist testing, we asked for feedback from the community about the chemist change. Overall the approval was pretty split. A few were completely for it, a few were completely against it, and the majority approved of the resistance I change but did not approve of the health III to health II change. Therefore, we'll be looking into that in the future (there won't be another chemist testing session in the near future). I would like to encourage more players to respond to these polls as it allows us to have a more concrete look at the communities thoughts. Here's the histogram's details:
    [​IMG]

    Freeday Changes Poll
    We are looking at a change for freeday where instead of all classes being unlocked for everyone, only 3 of the 9 classes are unlocked. How we'll keep it semi-balanced while doing so is by assigning each player a group (A, B, C) and the groups will rotate what classes they can play. The rotation would be as follows:

    Set 1: Ninja, Dwarf, Elf
    Set 2: Assassin, Necro, Mage
    Set 3: Pyro, Engineer, Chemist

    So to make things clear, here's an example of a rotation. Ningeek is assigned Group A, Redslime is assigned Group B, and Miskey is assigned Group C. Everyone in the same group gets the same set for each rotation. For the first rotation, Ningeek gets set 1, Redslime set 2, and Miskey set 3. After the next rotation, Ningeek gets set 2, Redslime set 3, and Miskey set 1. That continues for each rotation. This means that each player will be able to eventually play all the classes, but each game is not overrun by overplayed classes such as ninja and engineer. So we're wondering what the players think of this idea and also curious as to how often the rotation should happen. The rotation could happen every map, every game (Bo3), or every week (every freeday). There's a poll above, which we would love for you to fill out, which has those three ideas as well as options to not change freeday or if you don't have an opinion.

    Bug Fixes
    Redslime has been cranking out the bug fixes, so here's a list of those fixes!
    - Necro AI is no longer broken (might still be bad)
    [Definitely still bad]
    - Medic heal no longer closes chat
    - Medics no longer take true damage from a pyro while standing in a fire
    - The credits for the last cap are now also displayed and are taken into account for the MVP
    - Re-introduced the free play day message, now displayed in the actionbar during pre/post-game stage
    - The same map can no longer be played multiple times in the same match
    - Medic webs can no longer be placed in spawn, no more trolling :V
    - Fixed damaging/healing a turret not doing anything
    - Fixed medic restore unblocking swords/undrawing bows
    - Fixed medic restore removing Dwarf's slowness

    Also, a couple things related to bugs to be aware of:
    - If you are playing on version 1.13+, there is a bug that will kick you if you are put in spectator mode.
    - Theoretically the engineer bug where engineers cannot heal the turret has been fixed. If you notice that it is not fixed, please let us know.

    Ninja Tweak
    A small tweak to ninja will be tested this next week. The tweak is quite simple, just removing Slowness I from the ninja eggs. The testing will begin on Monday (11/26) and will run through Sunday (12/02). There will be an in game poll that you can vote on. Come on out and test ninja and please give us feedback!

    Conclusion
    One important thing before the end of this thread. We really need your help for dwarf. We really have no clue what to do with dwarf, so please help us. We're also looking at doing some medic testing further down the road so keep your eyes bleached.

    TANG TANG TANG TANG
    - CTF Staff Team :flag:
     
    • Like Like x 9
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    #1 ningeek212, Nov 24, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  2. Jul13n

    Jul13n aka Scape

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    to clarify with the histogram, the y-axis is the frequency/amt of times some1 voted for that x-axis value

    and the rating scale (x-axis) is 1 out of 5 but 5.5 for the sake of the graph symmetry i assume xP


    EDIT:
    in regards to chemist, giving it resistance I and going from there would be pretty solid ngl
     
  3. ningeek212

    ningeek212 Yoshi Legend and Medic Main

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    Yeah that's correct
     
  4. November

    November november

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    should remove blindness and not slowness from ninja eggs imo

    my input on dwarf is find a role for it that no other class currently has and then rework it to fit it around that. i say this because i think elf/necro are victims of having a lot of other classes that are better at the roles they try to fulfil and so they arent played much. if dwarf is just blindly reworked without considering its role relative to other classes then i could imagine it ending up in a similar situation to elf/necro
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  5. BrandinoB

    BrandinoB Well-Known Member

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    Yea I didn't think changing health III to II would be good. Chemist just needs more tweaks tbh

    I like the free day changes a lot. Personally, in my "holy **** it's free day" days, I think I would've liked to see having one free set per week, not just per game or per map. I think if it's per game or per map, it doesn't really get players used to the premiums and just takes away something they might have enjoyed too quickly. Maybe one free set per day would good if a smaller time frame is preferred. I also like how y'all split up the most cancerous classes into different sets ahah thank you.

    Bug fixes are good

    Ninja change I'm interested in. I dunno if slowness had something to do with canceling sprint, or if "canceled sprint" was literally just the slowness effect or whatever but I guess we'll see.


    DWARF:

    A rework idea I had for dwarf a little while ago. The idea of it was to buff it's offensive/PVP capabilities and also give it a team/support aspect to the class, like dwarves can give in basically every story out there.

    ***Anything not mentioned is not included in the class, everything is subject to change***


    Armor (changeable):
    • Chain Helmet

    • Diamond Chest

    • Diamond Pants

    • Chain Boots

    Hotbar:
    • Diamond Sword or Axe (Axe named War Axe)

    • 4 Steak

    • Anvil (Fortify)

    • Compass

    • Class Selector


    Passives:
    • Passive Slowness I (or not)

    • Passive Strength I (or not)


    Abilities:

    FORTIFY = Hitting a friendly player gives them a better chestplate/weapon for 1 life or (x) amount of time
    • Medic: Gold Chest → Iron
    • Archer: Chain Chest → Iron OR Punch I-II on bow
    • Heavy: Diamond Chest → Prot I Diamond Chest (hahahhahahh can you imagine how broken it’d be if it got a sharp I diamond sword)
    • Soldier: Iron Chest → Diamond Chest OR Diamond Sword

    • Pyro: Leather Chest → Gold Chest

    • Elf: Enchanted Leather Chest → Enchanted Gold Chest OR Stone Sword

    • Assassin: Nothing → Leather Chest

    • Ninja: Nothing → Leather Chest

    • Engineer: Leather Chest → Chain Chest

    • Mage: Leather Chest → Chain Chest

    • Necro: Unknown bc hoping for rework

    • Dwarf: Cannot give to dwarves
    Fortify can only be given to 2-3 players at once, it resets if the player with fortify dies or everything resets if the dwarf dies/enters spawn/changes class.
    *** Obviously Fortify is a bit complicated if done on a per class basis, sooooo an enchantment on a class's armor/weapon could also suffice. The limit on the max amount of fortified players being down to 2-3 allows for better team play but still (hopefully) forces the dwarf to choose his/her targets wisely (i.e. giving it to an offensive medic and heavy vs. defensive pyro and ninja)

    Rage: Getting hit 3-4 times in a row triggers "battle rage," giving the dwarf a sudden Speed 1 for 5 seconds and deals 4 hearts true damage on first hit. (damage is changeable based upon gameplay, I'm just putting this in here cause I feel like it needs something else soooooo **** it, gimme ideas)

    Rally (instead of Rage): Having Fortified players within 10 blocks of you gives you kb 1 on your sword or something like that

    Dwarf doesn’t take knockback from projectiles (including things like mage lightning #NewMageCounter)

    Those are most of my ideas, I think I showed it to a couple people but idr the responses. Lmk of any questions.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Creative Creative x 1
    #5 BrandinoB, Nov 24, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  6. redslime

    redslime Developer

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    suggestion from versync (account broken):

    For dwarf class, I think it’d be worth testing if dwarf didn’t have the idea of leveling up with shifting all the way into level 10. Maybe have the class as a support class that is designed to work around the flag. For instance, totems. Maybe the class will have a portable item they can place, and it will give nearby allies certain kinds of buffs, or enemies, certain kinds of weaknesses. Also maybe if totems aren’t a good idea, maybe have the buffs only work around the dwarf itself, when it’s around the flag, and shifting. Maybe I just put in an idea of a new class lol idk.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. MerryCoolmas21

    MerryCoolmas21 Bans and Appeals Manager

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    Without rice: 9/10
    With rice: 10/10

    If you get that reference, you need to get a life
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Cardona360

    Cardona360 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not going to go too into detail but I’d like to see this in a dwarf rework:

    -Fishing rod, when clicked shoots out an arrow like mage damage spell. If the arrow hits a player or a flag (both enemy flag and your own), it will fling the player/flag towards the dwarf
    -Passive ability that increases attack damage significantly when the dwarf gets to a certain Health threshold (Ex. Strength II when Hearts > 4)
    Just an example
    -Removal of slowness

    This will make dwarf a good class to use on both offense and defense. If balance is a problem, adjust the numbers and maybe slightly less armor or an iron sword. Perhaps make chemist a counter to it somehow (Ex. Poison disables the passive ability) to give chemist a slight edge. Again, plug in the numbers that work out :smile:


    Edit: Only dropped flags, not flags on the fence post
     
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  9. auromelt

    auromelt Well-Known Member

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    Good bug fixes!!! I think the freeday change would be good in allowing new players to play and understand a wider variety of classes :smile: I have no idea what to do with dwarf either maybe just make it more mobile (maybe a defensive tank character) medic testing y i k e s
     
  10. ningeek212

    ningeek212 Yoshi Legend and Medic Main

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    Of course we considered removing blindness (which is the effect that disables sprinting for a little while), but we wanted to make sure we didn't nerf ninja too much, since it's both a staple of ctf and money maker for brawl. So we decided to test removing just slowness to see the effects.
     
  11. Jul13n

    Jul13n aka Scape

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    for dwarf i think having a 'rage' cool-down ability where it can just go ham in certain aspects would b cool

    for ex...
    - give and/or take no kb
    - get slowness I or II <-----not sure if it should have passive slowness I
    - gain resistance/protection enchants
    - fire aspect enchant and/or strength II
    and/or even passively & temporarily increase sword damage according to damage received -as previously suggested

    But also having the 'rage' buff teammates and/or weaken enemies in like a 5 block radius (or make the dwarf have to hit the person) would b really cool too
    - these buffs/nerfs can be presented as armor changes like brandino suggested, or w/e, kinda endless options, just the idea tho

    TL;DR
    this class can be a real tank damage dealer, just how it is now, but itd have much more mobility without needing to crouch for power, and itd have a focus for stalemate recovery (w/ its anti-kb & powerful temporary buffs)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #11 Jul13n, Nov 25, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  12. Recovs

    Recovs Unknown Member

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    What about the bug when Ninja loses their pearl.

    Also, going into invis is still not consistent. It takes longer to go into it at different times when you switch to your redstone. (This is not a ping issue) On top of that, you're still able to get hit while invis when you're in that state sometimes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #12 Recovs, Nov 27, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  13. Jul13n

    Jul13n aka Scape

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    Yes pls with the pearl, annoying little booger lol, but if it's too much to fix then o well

    U referring to hitting someone and then trying to go invis after that? Because there's still a huge delay in doing so...but i agree that it often feels inconsistent maybe depending how brief u hit an enemy just before, or we're just losing track of time depending on how fast we want the invis? Would be a check for @redslime if he has the time, probably nothing tho xd

    But going in/out of invis without having hit some1 is smooth afaik
     
  14. Recovs

    Recovs Unknown Member

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    Well to reword it in a way, say you hit someone and you to want go invis. Well first off you need to see if your redstone is there. Here's the thing though, when I know I have my redstone out and I'm holding it, I still won't go invis until a second or more later and those seconds matter. When I'm holding it in my hand, it's never the same amount of time it takes to actually go invis when I know for a fact that i should be invis by now. And even when you've just turned invis, someone can still sneak another hit on you for some odd reason.
     
  15. redslime

    redslime Developer

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    This is happening because of ping. Not only your own ping to tell the server that you're going into invis, but the server responding to you and passing that information to other players online. You can tell when the server knows that you're invis, you receive a message. But for people that have a higher ping, you might still be visible to them and they can still hit you on their screen. The "attack packet" is sent from a client, which usually ensures that everything is working as it should, but delays can get in the way. It's the same reason why hack clients (killaura etc in specific) are a thing since it's controlled from the client and (in the case of hits on invis ninjas) not double checked by the server if it's actually a possible hit. Of course the server knows that you're invis already but it won't stop it since it assumes that the client pre-checked everything correctly. Arrows will also still hit you while you're invisible. It's never been discussed whether this issue should be fixed, but it's obviously possible to not let through melee attacks while being invisible.
     
  16. Abtruse

    Abtruse New Member

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    Current Opinion On Dwarf:

    Right now dwarf pretty obviously has a large amount of problems both in team compatability and also 1v1 capability with certain classes, im sure the staff team is already aware of this and have already reached the conclusion that dwarf is in need of a complete rework.

    Atm my opinion is that dwarf should remain slightly weaker to ranged classes such as mage or archer but still be able to be played without being dominated by them, this may change with a future mage/archer rework however atm Mage and archer are posed almost no risk to by a dwarf.

    Possible Rework 1:

    Armour: Remains the Same

    Weapon: D Sword S II —> D Sword S I (on ability)

    Effects: Slowness 1, Strength 1, Fire Resistance 1

    The idea of a AoE effect is interesting whether it be to teammates or enemies as mentioned above, and building upon that idea I believe that dwarves should gain a system similar to the current pyro being used.

    To explain further, upon hitting an enemy the pyro will gain ‘charge’ for every hit, this charge will build until it reaches a certain amount. Now this leads to the ‘ability’ of dwarf itself where on activation in a certain radius depending on the amount of charge players will be ‘rooted’, meaning they are unable to move however can respond to attacks and use their own abilities. Furthermore concerning the charge the only possible charges that should be able to be used are at 50% and 100% of the xp bar where 5 hits are needed for 50% and consequently 10 for 100%. This will allow Dwarf to play a much larger role in defensive tactics, however in order to also fix Dwarf Damage Output during this ability the sword should be reduced to Sharpness 1 on ability usage, this will also further help dwarf fight against rangers as having a ‘root’ ability will prevent them from keeping distance from the dwarf.

    Duration of ability:

    The one problem i can see with this ability is the duration, as having even a second too long AoE effect can allow the ability to become overpowered and it will simply become another ‘meta’ class, thus im open to any critisicm, however atm i currently believe that on 50% 2 seconds root is substantial whilst on 100% 5 seconds root (in order to prevent archer abuse) is enough.


    Possible Rework 2:

    Armour Iron Helm and Boots Dia Chest and Legs

    Weapon: D Sword S II F I

    Effects: Str I Slow I (Regen I on ability for 00:10)

    My next possible Rework is the idea of a ‘silence’ effect where although it is not AoE it is based on whoever has been hit once the ability has been activated, very simply once hit with the silence effect the class will lose all access to any of its own ‘abilities’ such as ninja being unable to go invis or chemist being unable to use mana, this would of course also work using a ‘charge’ up type of ability where a certain amount of hits are needed in order to reach max and activate the ability, furthermore when silenced the opponent will gain slowness 1 for the duration of the silence, this rework however can be deemed as ‘op’ as silencing a ninja would leave it completely defenseless however the idea of a ‘charge’ similar to pyro could allow a balance to be maintainsd where in order to activate this ability a pre requisite of 5 hits are needed in order to silence a opponent for 4 seconds this would also help shorten the gap between dwarf and mage as mage completely relies on abilities therefore allowing a silence would provide a suitable counter if a dwarf is able to get close to a mage.

    In Conclusion, although the two reworks are similar in idea they both have different applications in terms of a dwarfs position in a team and can help dwarf maintain a more active role in a teams roster both competitively and in casual gameplay. Lastly critisicm is welcomed but please dont flame as this is my first suggestion to reworks for CTF classes.
     
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  17. Admyral_Mynson

    Admyral_Mynson Dank Memer

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    the freeday change is a band aid fix for the bigger problem of engineer/necro/dwarf teams being obnoxious and stupid because of their toxic class design(s) but it works. +1
     
  18. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost Well-Known Member

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    Nooo you got rid of the only thing that made dwarf mildly fun to play anything but defence
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Recovs

    Recovs Unknown Member

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    I personally suggest not removing slowness to the eggs. Instead, I have my own idea on nerfing them.

    With Ninja's eggs, add this cooldown I've came up with. Have the xp bar show how much time you have until you're able to throw another egg (Like chemist and it's pots). The max eggs you can throw is 2 ONLY when your xp bar is completely full (so every egg uses half the xp bar). It'll take 2 seconds to gain half your xp bar and be able to throw 1 egg again (4 seconds to have it full again and be able to throw 2).

    Maybe lower the max cap to 8 instead of 10??

    In my opinion, the egg spam/no restriction to how many you can throw at once is the problem here, not its effects it gives out.
     
    • Like Like x 1
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  20. Abtruse

    Abtruse New Member

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    I agree with Recovs with the lack of restriction on eggs and I also think that there should be a limit proposed on the amount of eggs able to be thrown at a point, however the effects of the eggs should also be nerfed or reworked in a way which doesnt allow ninja’s to dominate battles with weaker classes, i.e Assassin. A alternative nerf to this would be to introduce a cooldown or additional debuff to using enderpearls apart from the standard 2 hearts taken, as this will slightly limit a ninja’s movement and thus having eggs which inhibit a enemies movement would also be justified. Critisicm is welcomed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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