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Puppy Guarding >:V (CTF Flags)

Discussion in 'Ideas' started by MrWaffleman, Mar 17, 2016.

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  1. MrWaffleman

    MrWaffleman The negligence of time's end is man's downfall

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    Lately there has been a lot of hate in regards to difficulty in capturing the flag and like 3 dwarves camping on the flag, as a result of this, many classes have been extremely critiqued such as Assassin and Dwarf. It's hard to find good solutions to these kind of problems, and because of the community's feelings towards this, it leads classes to be nerfed/buffed which still doesn't solve the problem (see the train of disaster?) I mean I probably don't suggest many things, or talk that much about gameplay mechanics on CTF. But this seems (at least for me) to be a pretty good solution (or at least a start to) to remove puppy guarding on CTF Flags (players camping really close up to them).

    My idea is that when a certain number of players (3-5 players?) are within a 5 block-radius of the flag (can be changed, considering some flag rooms are open, and players can completely block the exits making this idea pretty much useless), then no one else will be able to enter that radius (unless it's an enemy). If they try to, they will instead be repelled. I have even found faults within my own idea, and it's not really a true idea if I'm not even confident in it! So I will try to balance it out as much as possible so it could actually work out.

    - Instead of puppy guarding flags, can't players just block the exits and make it just even more impossible to capture the flag? Well, this can be the case for some maps. A flag room is meant to have many exits/entrances, the maps that have the least of them are going to have the most problems. Also, like I said, the radius can always be adjusted for each and every map. The player wouldn't even be capturing the flag in the first place if he/she found it hard to enter. The thing is, the flag room is meant to be close to the spawn. Essentially, the further you are from your spawn, the more vulnerable you are. If players just resort to blocking the entrances, they are more exposed. Many different classes can target them, some of them being Archers and Assassins. The whole entire problem with players camping the flag is that they are in an enclosed space and it's hard to knock them away.

    - Wouldn't player-support classes making up the majority of the players allowed in the flag radius just be completely OP? This might seem a little bit confusing, but what I'm saying is that if there are let's say a whole bunch of medics (or even Pyros because catching enemies on fire is a pretty big help), couldn't they just heal each other in the flag room? Or perhaps there is one pyro that is allowed to be in the flag room, and one just shoots from the outside. I honestly don't think it's much of a problem now, because if someone is trying to capture the flag, I'm sure you would be more focused on getting that player killed rather than helping your teammates, and even if you do help your teammate, it's still just one person attacking, meaning it's less effective, it balances it in each scenario. As for people helping each other even though they are outside the radius, it could easily be adjusted that you can't heal/catch players on fire if you are outside the radius of the flag.

    - Wouldn't just making 3-5 dwarves in the flag room be totally enough? This honestly I have no clue to limit. If anything, there should be a nerf on dwarf. But you never know, I might think of something for this, could idea self! *pats self on back*

    Keep in mind this is to balance CTF defense, not to demolish it, or to make it completely OP. No matter how you think of it, capturing a flag is supposed to be an accomplishment, and something hard to do. As for CTF Matches, I'm sure there should be a command to configure this so it matches the team's need.
     
    #1 MrWaffleman, Mar 17, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  2. GetShadowRealmed

    GetShadowRealmed What do I put here

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    I like the 3-5 at a time. Not sure about others. Some may like it.
     
  3. jarboyp

    jarboyp Bunny Defender

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    Why don't we just remove the assassin's imstantkill and replace it with strength V, and make it so that dwarfs gain levels at a slower rate?
     
  4. MrWaffleman

    MrWaffleman The negligence of time's end is man's downfall

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    I said in my Thread that I would like to avoid Class changes, considering that we've done many things like that, but all it does is just makes it harder on the players, and causes more squabble in regards to class nerfs/buffs and making everything 100% balanced. But if you mean for these not to be related to the CTF Defense then I guess, but it seems like it ties into this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. jarboyp

    jarboyp Bunny Defender

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    But if we nerf all of the classes necro will finally be op....
     
  6. obikenobi21

    obikenobi21 Delta Force Jedi

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    Or rework the classes. A lot of people on defense should result in a higher number of people needed to bypass the defense and capture (assuming they all know wat they are doing). However, the classes in question (dwarf, assassin) make it pretty much impossible to do this because of the power of the one class.

    In fact, I don't see why you're so opposed to buffing/reworking/nerfing classes, because as far as I see it, that fixes the problem. CTF is a team based game, and making it so teamwork is punished is not a good way to go about reworking the game. In addition, this proposal wouldn't even solve the problem, all it does is cause defense to go from crowding a flag to roaming more with a stronger core defense of, wait a minute, 3 dwarves!
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. MrWaffleman

    MrWaffleman The negligence of time's end is man's downfall

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    The reason I'm opposed to buffing/reworking/nerfing classes is the sole reason that why change a class when you could just change one gameplay aspect? Mostly, reactions from community when a class is changed is most probably "CHANGE THIS CLASS". When you change a class, you have to remember that it's specifically a player-controlled aspect of the game. It's basically unbalancing a bar-graph with like 8 other things being graphed (couldn't find a better example meh). The thing with changing the defense is that it affects all classes. Yes, you may argue that there are some classes that don't do defense AT ALL. But when I've looked at it, there are even Ninjas and Soldiers defending the flag. If the defense were to be changed, then it would essentially change the whole gameplay, but at the same time keep everything balanced.

    This may be punishing teamwork, but there really is a difference between unfair crowds of players camping the flag. That is not really teamwork, there is actually no part of teamwork involved in that. It's mostly a challenge of who can kill the person the fastest. Before teamwork, is actually the fairness of it all, you could just do a measly 10v10 game, then see how far you go with 10 players guarding the flag, that is not teamwork, nor is it fair. Teamwork has the word "work" in it, yes they are contributing to killing the player, but there's no real fun aspect of that, and it's really boring to sit down and left-click whoever gets close to the flag.

    Yes, I did talk about the Dwarf problem, in that case, there could be a nerf, but other than that I don't really see a problem in it.

    EDIT: Dwarves are pretty weak in the aspect of healing. They mostly depend on the power of medics to constantly come and refill/heal them. And like I said, a solution could be to disallow any outside interaction, or maybe even disable healing in the whole entire flag area.
     
  8. Mob_92

    Mob_92 Active Member

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    make dwarf like elf with different abilities ?
     
  9. Tenshirox

    Tenshirox C a p t u r e F l a g

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    Such a bandage fix to the issues aren't going to improve the game. People do need to accept the fact that if the Defense count is higher than the Offense count it should be difficult to grab the flag, and that the unbalanced aspect is that a single class snowballs into a behemoth on defense. Limiting defense to a number of playing just throws the game out of balance, especially when considering 3-5 players will have to hold out against a team of 20 during full times. For the most part, defense can be beaten with a strong enough offense.

    This is taking the prospect of "Defense is too hard to beat with a large number of overpowered classes!" and trying to resolve "large number" rather than "overpowered classes".
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. xxMineSheepxx

    xxMineSheepxx Staff and Build Team Manager
    Build Team Wiki Team

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    This may be a bad idea, because maps with small flagrooms (forest of rivals for example) will be extremely hard to defend, and its a lot easier for certain classes to escape.
     
  11. Sir_Inge

    Sir_Inge Well-Known Member

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    -5 because of the same reasons obi and tenshi stated. It is a broken bands if fix that if it was implemented in a balanced way would require surgery much thought that a rework might be easier.

    Now I'm gonna make flags into puppies.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. MrWaffleman

    MrWaffleman The negligence of time's end is man's downfall

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    Deletes all refutations... rip in peace idea.
     
  13. Tysonyoshi

    Tysonyoshi Active Member

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    lmao what has people in ctf come to
     
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  14. CrossBoone

    CrossBoone enjoy life

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    I feel that, puppy guarding should stay because it makes it more challenging to develop and become a better player as a whole. You need no frustration to become a better player. Dwarf is part of the game and there have been too much h8 towards ctf classes as a whole.
     
  15. Jellyt0ts

    Jellyt0ts Active Member

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    Capping isn't even that difficult, just use your brains. If there's a dwarf work with people to kill it and then go onto cap, teamwork wins always.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. CrossBoone

    CrossBoone enjoy life

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    Yep <3
     
  17. iMuffles

    iMuffles Well-Known Member

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    or you can be a soldier and be in and out of most flagrooms in 2 seconds. most of the time you don't need to kill the dwarf, just a distraction is enough
     
  18. misterslime

    misterslime Well-Known Member

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    ITS NOT PUPPY GUARDING!!!!111 its camping :stuck_out_tongue:
     
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  19. BrandinoB

    BrandinoB Well-Known Member

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    If you ask me, it'd be better to change a class than to change CTF gameplay as a whole >.<

    EDIT: lolrip just realized this thread is a bit old
     
  20. lasertagfighter

    lasertagfighter Well-Known Member

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    All I gatta say is: you all suck at teamwork or at least some. :/
     
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