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Idea The Assassin nerf has been reverted, time to do the same to Elf

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Keelerr, Sep 15, 2018.

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Should the restriction on vortex be reduced from 15 blocks to 5 blocks?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    42.1%
  2. No,it is fine how it is

    9 vote(s)
    47.4%
  3. It should be reduced, but not as low as 5

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
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  1. Keelerr

    Keelerr Well-Known Member

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    The recent changes for assassin were carried out in a very effective way, in my opinion. Staff asked for what the community would like to fix a common problem (respawn abusing), the fix hit assassin a little too hard, staff asked how they could revert the changes and then the changes were reverted. Overall, the process was reasonably quick and driven by community feedback, which is incredible to see.

    Shortly before, a very similar thread was posted to ask how, if at all, the vortex element for elf should be changed. Although the class itself was not used very commonly after the EMP update, nor was it considered by most to be overpowered, the vortex ability in particular created gameplay issues by holding enemies in place right in front of high damage classes such as dwarves and pyros.

    By far the biggest feedback was to increase the cooldown of the ability (42.3% of votes) - before this an elf could hold an enemy in one spot almost indefinitely. The next biggest was to have something not mentioned and to restrict usage around the flagroom.

    This was the result in the Summer Update.

    Elf was changed to have the cooldown of the vortex increased and a restriction placed on it identical to structures. It is hard to say what the consensus from the community was about the change without sounding biased, but the most common feedback from the thread was to nerf one element of the vortex, perhaps whilst buffing another part of the class such as the sword or the water element.

    Although I think a change was needed to the vortex, the change given was too much of a nerf to a class that was not overpowered but simply had one broken aspect. My main issue here is that the flagroom restriction is too hard of a nerf, I think the increased cooldown is fine.

    15 blocks is too much. The vortex was broken when it could be used right on top of or right next to the flag, allowing the core defence to deal a ton of damage to a flagcarrier. But with the new restriction, on many maps it does not just restrict inside the flagroom, but to a large area surrounding the flagroom as well. To use blackout as an example, not only is the flagroom and on top restricted, but also the areas outside, some of the top wall, and most of the structure outside the flagroom. It is almost impossible to trap a soldier before they get out of reach.

    Defensive elf is incredibly weak at the moment, but it is not talked about much (except maybe from @Northernlreland ) because it is not a popular class in general so not many people noticed. The whole point of the vortex is to slow enemies to allow roaming defence to hit them, as elf alone does not do enough to kill them. Elf should be able to trap enemies as they approach the flagroom, rather than having to stand incredibly far away in order to be useful.

    I agree that the area immediately surrounding the flag should be restricted, but I think that should be it. I suggest that the restriction be reduced from 15 blocks to 5 blocks.

    Let me know your thoughts on this, I want to be able to play elf again :cry:
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  2. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, *it will also stop me from roaming to spawns!!!* Elf defence is useless as a core defender now. Instead of saying how OP it was, why not figure out how to counter an elf defence? Three classes are basically immune to it and elf has a low health pool. Increased vortex cooldown was well needed as you could spam it, lol. But the 15 block radius was not needed. I didnt see the point in nerfing elf defence. Its highly annoying. Over Powered? No.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Recovs

    Recovs Unknown Member

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    On another note about its vortex, one thing I want to see implemented is restricting a soldier to wall climb if they're pulled into it. Something similar to what the old Earth Element did to a soldier's ability to wall climb.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  4. Keelerr

    Keelerr Well-Known Member

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    Could not agree with this more +1
     
  5. November

    November november

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    surely 5 blocks is just going to make it usable right next to the flag post and will make it op again?

    my opinion is that its just a bad mechanic that should be changed completely
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Spades_

    Spades_ Former CTF Mod

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    Yeah... Kinda defeats the purpose of immobilizing someone if they can just wall climb out of it.
    Okay, changed to what though?
     
  7. cammanduh

    cammanduh Well-Known Member

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    bring back earth element to actually have a counter to wall spammers
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • MVP Honor MVP Honor x 1
  8. Keelerr

    Keelerr Well-Known Member

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    I think it makes a fair difference - on blackout it means that elf is somewhat useless inside the flagroom, but can have an impact outside of it. Granted the difference isn't so huge on recovery, but for normal defence a pyro would have to abandon the flagpost in order to hit someone stuck in vortex which would leave the flag free to steal. I think there is a difference, but either way my main point is that elf shouldn't be useless for such a wide radius from the flag.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Paddishly

    Paddishly Active Member

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    Why not have the radius around the flag be specific to each map, like structure restricted areas. That way wind element can still be applicable on defence but not overpowered in the flag room. So in maps like Blackout it’s only 5 blocks but others like Airlock or *insert better example here* are 15 blocks.

    Also, yes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. Keelerr

    Keelerr Well-Known Member

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    That's a really good idea! Maybe for a map such as Slate with a really big flagroom the radius could be larger. My main issue is that on a map such as blackout there is no reason to play elf because you're useless for a large area outside the flagroom too, but on a map with a bigger flagroom there's less of an issue.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Knaber

    Knaber Well-Known Member

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    15 blocks is stupendously big, i don't get why the restriction was put in at all but if you want one at all i don't see why it should be any bigger than 3-5 blocks...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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