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[CLASS IDEA] [CLASS REWORK] Engineer, Necro, and Demo

Discussion in 'Ideas' started by ExtremeEvoboost, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost CTF Media Man
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    Alright, so the engineer rework has had some pretty mixed reviews. I'm of the opinion its a good class idea, but not very engineer like, and gets rid of the original concept of the class, So I've come up with some ideas to keep engineer in a nerfed/slightly reworked state, while giving most of the new stats to a new class, Demo.


    ENGINEER REWORK
    Ok, so first of all, revert engineer back to how it used to be to get a starting position. The old engineer had some primary issues that made it way too strong in combat, requiring a concentrated effort to take down a nest, when it should be a support class. Also, its campy playstyle made it slow the game down significantly.

    Plan: Make Engineer less campy while maintaining its original role.

    Engineerinventory.png
    Inventory:
    Golden Helmet
    Leather Tunic 1 orange dye
    Leather Leggings 1 orange dye
    Golden Boots
    (all with protection one)

    Diamond Pickaxe
    (sharpness 1, Knockback 1)
    x4 Steak
    x2 Mini Turrets
    Like the original turret but far weaker. Has 8 HP as compared to the turret's 20, and can be destroyed by breaking its glass pane base. It deals 1.5:heart: True damage per shot. The Demo's Grenade Launcher (see below) can destroy it instantly. They, like all structures would have the same restrictions as the current speed pad. Once destroyed (either by a player, or the recall structures book) each has a 8 second delay before they can be placed again. They cannot shoot invisible ninjas.
    Allows the engineer to be more mobile with its turrets, while still forcing them to move about since they are so easily destroyed.
    Regeneration Aura
    Same as the Current iterations Engi Update
    Keeps engi mobile and not tied to a regenerator
    Portable Jump Pad
    Similar to how the speed pad functions, Gives allies jump boost 8 for 1 second when stepped on, and can only be used 5 times.
    Useful for either chasing a soldier/elf, or allowing your team to escape a sticky situation

    Recall Structures
    Destroys all placed structures, 8 second recharge for the turret and jump pad on use.
    Duh.

    Turret&Jumppad.png

    NECRO REWORK
    Necro sucks right now and has no real role in the game.
    Plan: Give Necro a purpose in life, er, death?
    necroinventory.png
    Inventory:
    Iron Helmet
    Golden Chestplate
    Iron Leggings
    Iron boots


    Necro Sword
    Sharpness I
    Does 1 extra :heart: of true damage for every potion effect a player has on them.
    Useful for chemists and buffed players
    Grave Shovel
    When players die, a small puff of redstone (similar to when you hold up a structure) will appear, only visible by necros, for 5 seconds. Right click it with the shovel to get a rotten flesh (up to 5 can be stored)
    x3 Steak
    (up to x3) Rotten Flesh
    Rotten flesh can be used on yourself or other players, giving them regen 2 and absorption I for 5 seconds,
    Right click on yourself or left click a teammate.
    Necronomicon
    Right click to void all special effects from enemy players, and inflict them with weakness and wither I for 8 seconds.
    (Recharge of 20 seconds)
    Effects Voided:

    All Chemist Potions (Good or bad)
    Mage regeneration
    Elf Water Element potion effects
    Necro Rotten Flesh
    Other Necronomicon effect
    Engineer Regenerator (fully drains charge if its being used)
    Medic restore (resets timer)
    Ninja Invisibility (silly powder until effect ends)
    Ninja flash bombs
    Death tags


    DEMO CLASS IDEA
    Turn Current Engineer into its own class, with some changes, as the new class is fun, but more fitting of a demoman than an engineer.
    Plan: Make A new class based around explosives.

    Demoinventory.png

    Inventory:
    Iron Helmet
    Iron Chestplate (blast protection I)
    Leather Leggings
    Iron Boots

    Demo Pickaxe
    Sharpness II
    x5 Steak
    Grenade Launcher
    (See patch notes from update)
    Can Destroy any structure (Turrets, Jump Pads, Mines) in 1 shot
    x4 Demo Mines
    Same Restrictions as all other structures. All players who step 1 block adjacent or on top of the mine will cause it to explode, dealing 6:heart: of explosion damage. They cannot be placed more than 3 blocks apart from one another, and will damage the demo should they be in the blast radius. Regenerates one every 5 seconds. Takes 2 seconds to 'arm' (before it can detonate either by book or by proximity), they can also be broken by breaking the wool block or the button
    Detonate!
    Detonates all placed mines at once. Mines.png

    Let me know in the comments what you think about these ideas, I'd love to hear what you think, and am willing to change most of these ideas if necessary.
     
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    #1 ExtremeEvoboost, Apr 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  2. Danimals_OW

    Danimals_OW Member

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    I personally like all the reworks, demo is an interesting thing I could see possibly happening. I feel like there needs to be more skill implemented rather than just camping, like current necro is kinda aggro, then u just play super passive.

    Overall, I think these are good changes, but also kind of becomes like TF2
     
  3. StormNox

    StormNox Active Member

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    Engineer has already been reworked, Necro is just as good as it is, and there is no need for addition of new classes currently.

    All of your ideas seem good though, your engineer rework seems more detailed and more interesting than the current reworked engineer and the original engineer so this should get implemented.
    Your ideas for necro are good, however implementation of mob spawnings would even the class out a bit.
    Demo would be better suited than the current reworked engineer.
     
  4. Flaze__

    Flaze__ Active Member

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    I agree that engineer is not really engineer-like anymore, except maybe for its speed pad, and that it could be a separate class like demo to make it fair for people who bought engineer and want it to be a real engineer. But then it would be hard to make engineer a balanced class, that doesn't annoy everyone, even on a non-competitive point of view. I'm not too sure about the turrets but if you can destroy them it could be fine though. However I don't think the tnts would be enough to counter it, you might want to make the lightning spell or maybe the archer "headshots" be able to break it. Another solution would be to give it HP as it was suggested in another thread (I don't remember which though) so that people can actually destroy it while being shot by it if the engineer is not around, trying to protect its turret enough.
    Besides, I enjoy the jump pad idea it could be really useful and help your team a lot. I actually prefer the engineer to have things that are positive for your team than negative for the opposite team because I personally prefer facing a TP than a turret for example (only my opinion though). Therefore, I think it wouldn't be too much if you added the speed pad of the current engineer too, and replaced the jump pad by a single sponge (which would do the same). Engineer would become so interesting and mobile, thus discouraging a camping play style.
    So overall I think the new engineer another class could be possible and that this idea could be a good rework for engineer. Also even though I had a lot of fun with the new engi I think it might be a bit OP.

    The Demo concept isn't very different to the other "bomberman" class ideas but I like it. I enjoyed the "temporising" aspect of the current engineer though with the healing and speed so I believe something other than the tnt should be added to make Demo able to mix ranged attack and melee, but I don't know what. It might be fine as it is but I just liked playing engineer, so if you want to make the new engineer a different class, I think you need to keep the same play style, which was great in my opinion (but again it might just be me). Also 5 Demo mines might be a bit too much, maybereduce the number to 3 or 4.

    As for the necro rework, I don't really like it because for me it wouldn't even seem like a necro class anymore xD. However, I like the potion and effect aspect of the class and it could for example be a great counter to chemist, which became a very powerful class now. Also I'm not a fan of farming so I think that having 3 steaks when spawning but the possibility to have 5 is a bit stupid because that would mean that, to use the class to its highest potential, you would need to farm at the beginning. I liked the possibility of regaining steaks though so in my opinion just let it have 4 steaks at the beginning, but not more than 4 if you kill someone. So I believe some of the ideas of your rework could be implemented in another class, but just not this one. I personally prefer necro reworks that involve mob forms or aspects like chaos' one. You could just put an item or ability representing each mob(not all of them though) while making sure there is synergy between them.
     
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  5. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost CTF Media Man
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    I was thinking the same thing, but didn’t want to give mage another buff.
    That would be my idea. They do have 8 HP as listed, functioning the same compared to the normal 20 of a turret, and its base is a glass pane (about as easy to break as the old regenerator)
    unfortunately current necro just doesn’t work, dunno what the team did but mob AI is inherently broken.

    4, will be done.
    forgot to mention, would also remove the death tag. But yes this was made specifically to make chemists think twice before potioning up, and give some sort of downside to having strength+speed+resistance+regeneration+fire resistance
     
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  6. anto1001

    anto1001 Member

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    did you just bring sticky jumping, BEST F***ING IDEA EVER
     
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  7. JaxonCA12

    JaxonCA12 Member

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  8. Spades_

    Spades_ Least-Known-Well-Known Member

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    I like all the ideas, but I'm going to focus on the necro rework:

    I'll preface this by saying I really like this idea. Granted, I understand that it doesn't "feel like necro" but the old necro doesn't work. It was too op in the beginning, and now it's so bad it's barely viable. Instead of fiddling with the AI necro should shift focus.

    Honestly, I'm a big fan of the debuff idea. It would be viable on offense and defense but would be great on defense in particular. This rework idea is borderline op but with a 20-second cooldown, it forces the player to use that ability strategically. +1 To all ideas, nice job
     
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  9. WheelerWalkerJr

    WheelerWalkerJr Active Member

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    The rework for Engineer was okayish.. I did not really care for it as it removes the base functionality like turrets and teleporters I like the new cake system but the regeneration potency needs to be higher so it regenerates your health faster as its useless in combat.
     
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  10. Foodcourt

    Foodcourt CTF Staff Member

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    My only concern with the Engineer rework you proposed is that the addition of turrets and making it similar to the old engineer would not suit the competitive side of CTF very well. I like the jump boost pad and keeping the regeneration aura as it currently is would be a great support tactic for your teammates.

    As for Necro, although it strays away from what Necro currently is, I like it because it counters things such as Chemist and buffed Heavy which are two things that are very detrimental to a defensive Pyro. I think running it as a defensive/support class would be very solid with the Necronomicon and the ability of the rotten flesh. Big +1 on this rework.

    I'm not opposed to making new Engineer a class of its own and I think your proposed idea is very interesting. I like the edit you made making it four mines. My only concern is the amount of damage (six hearts) that they deal. I think current engineer's TNT is excessive with dealing four hearts of damage and, although completely different from TNT, I think the mines should do a less damage.
     
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  11. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost CTF Media Man
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    The mini turrets would be more akin to the mini-sentry of tf2, with their much weaker damage output, veering less along the line of main damage dealer and more of a suppression or support role. A ninja, any of the classes with regen, or Demo could pretty simply focus it down if needbe.

    Unfortunately, Redslime hath spoken and said mobs are completely broken and not likely to make a return in the next necro rework, so having it stray from what it already is, is not only inevitable, but probably preferrable.

    Notice how I said explosion damage and not true damage, it would deal damage like a creeper blast, which still takes armor into account. I’d have to be crazy to think 6 hearts of true damage per mine is remotely justifiable xd
     
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