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Neat Kill Stalemate Idea

Discussion in 'Ideas' started by Dragoarg7, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Dragoarg7

    Dragoarg7 Well-Known Member

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    So basically I was thinking about the idea the staff came up with, of reducing the amount of hearts the flag carrier had the longer they had it. That idea was flawed in a couple of ways, but the big one in my eyes was that it hurt the carrier to kill the stalemate, which is a terrible way to go about it. Now this idea would be a little complicated, and you know its up in the air for discussion but i think now that they did this big update, it is something that should be discussed. Instead of hurting the carrier during a stalemate, you should help the recovery force. When you set up recovery, you mainly send your pyros, some ninjas, archers, try and get something like that off. The problem with sending other classes is that they can be picked off by the support without doing much, so you rely on that head shot or that frenzy. Now what about this:

    When the flag is stolen it starts a timer, after, say 45 seconds for now, for the sake of this example, the flag gives off a strength 1 aura for an area around it, applicable to all people on the team the flag belongs to. After another 45 seconds, the recovery team gets strength 1 speed 1, then after another 30 it's strength 2 speed 1, another 30 strength 2 speed 2. So after two and a half minutes of someone holding the flag, you now have to deal with everyone coming at you with strength 2 speed 2. That can really open up new strategies for recovery, and unlike it's failed counterpart that the staff tried, it doesn't hurt the flag carrier to the point of almost instant death, you can still beat it, you just have a more difficult time.
     
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  2. ningeek212

    ningeek212 Yoshi Legend and Medic Main

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    Overall, I like this idea. I think you're times are a bit fast though. I would say after 1 minute and 30 seconds give the first buff, then after another minute give the second buff, and another minute give the final buff. Reason being is if the map size is a little larger, or if it's usually hard to get across the map, the minute 30 will be just enough time in any scenario to get across the map. So when that happens, then we buff recovery since it's truly in a stalemate game. The 1 minute instead of 30 seconds increments is because we want it to represent a recovery push. I would say to get across the map and attempt to recov would take close to 1 minute and not 30 seconds. So that intermediary buff will actual have some effect, instead of being skipped over.

    That being said I think it would be cool to test this, I think it's a good alternative to what we presented a few months ago. I believe what we would see are the typical recovery classes like archer, pyro, assassin, and scout be more used on defense to prevent the buffed damage classes like soldier, heavy, ninja from getting to the flag carrier. I alsp think because of this medic could actually have a recovery role to heal the damage dealer classes.
     
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  3. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    Good idea, awarding the enemy instead of punishing the flag holder and definitely worth trying out. It is possible it turns out to be just as annoying as heart reduction for the flag carrier however, along the common line of "Ninja can two shot now".
     
  4. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but with speed 2 strength 2 why use ninja when you can have a heavy just as fast but can take a lot more damage and deal almost as much.
     
  5. Dragoarg7

    Dragoarg7 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah honestly when I made it I just chalked up some times for examples, if people like it slowed down it should be slowed down. And yeah this change can open up a lot of new strategies. I think you guys were doing awesome by trying to change stalemates but I think it was less well received because you hurt a carrier, now you can try new strategies, and it's not just against the flag carrier but the strength and speed will help with all people, so you can really get after a pyro that's trying to clear or their medic.

    Yeah for sure ninja was one thing i thought about and that'd have to be dealt with cuz it'd be super easy to be critted out, and I think there should be tweaks and some stuff more than just this basic couple of buffs
     
  6. StormNox

    StormNox Active Member

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    I'm just curious but what's wrong with stalemates?
     
  7. Exeadra

    Exeadra Member

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    They’re boring and repetitive without good coordination with soldiers (especially blackout), or pyro and archer.

    Stalemates can last the whole game, so there’s really no need of having a stalemate that is that long.
     
  8. Dragoarg7

    Dragoarg7 Well-Known Member

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    It's more for competitive than casual, but still no one wants to sit through a 10 min stalemate in every match
     
  9. StormNox

    StormNox Active Member

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    Thank you both for explaining it clearly, now i understand the importance of dealing with the stalemate issues.

    For your idea Dragoarg7, i think that perhaps the effects should be affected by either the amount of players in the game (if there's 50 players in the game then the strength might get a little op), or what class the flag carrier is (if the flag carrier is ninja, the strength might also get a little overpowered) or ideas similar to those so these effects don't unbalance the game.
    Nonetheless, great stalemate-ender idea.
     
  10. Dragoarg7

    Dragoarg7 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that’s actually a good point, it for sure needs to be adjusted, maybe tweaked but not so much cuz even if it’s 25v25 then you still have 25 guys on your team you know? Still a good point and something to account for
     
  11. Dequoy

    Dequoy Member

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    I really like this idea. Even if Strength and Speed power ups are found to be too overpowered, the general concept can expand into other possibilities like granting increasing levels of Regeneration over long "flag action delays" to players within the aura range of the enemy's flag carrier to make the recovery team member(s) harder to kill without them being unrealistically overbearing or being difficult to distinguish from hack users.
     
  12. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    Keep in mind that the concept of holding flag = buffs for enemies should be easy enough to grasp for newcomers. Putting in player counts, class dependent buffs or multiple functionalities might quickly become too complex.
     
  13. StormNox

    StormNox Active Member

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    I agree with you that this may need to be adjusted. However, imagine 25 people on the opposite team trying to kill just the flag carrier while 25 people on your team are trying to defend. Chances are that recovery is going to be relatively easy.
    Nohox does also have a point though, but i think that new players would be able to understand these concepts pretty well.
     
  14. Dragoarg7

    Dragoarg7 Well-Known Member

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    Well making recovery easy is most of the point. Maybe not make it too easy but on some maps and some spots a recovery is rare. For instance, entering a stale mate on an OC map would last forever, but with this the map can move well with stalemates.
     
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  15. StormNox

    StormNox Active Member

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    I mean stalemates rarely happen. I've only seen like twenty actual stalemates (not people holding the flag for decorative purposes or something like that) during my time in ctf. Most of these stalemates only lasted for like three minutes.
    In ctf matches as well, if stalemates happen then it just means that one team focused on capturing too much and no-one went defensive. Even these stalemates ended from a insta-kill class like assassin or a class like pyro.
    However, usually stalemates which last for ten minutes happen when two teams are very balanced. This means that adding a strength and speed bonus to the recovery team won't help much.

    Well if this does get implemented, we can just see how this goes (it probably will get implemented perhaps in a few months time). Though as i said before, stalemates very rarely happen (unless both teams are not skilled of course).
     
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