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Suggestions for the Scout class

Discussion in 'Ideas' started by Cardona2427, May 14, 2019.

  1. Cardona2427

    Cardona2427 Member

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    Hello guys!!

    @Cardona360 and I have thought about some suggestions to change the Scout class. Even if it has not been testing much in a real match, we are thinking that the class should get a small change. Indeed, after playing with it and against it in casual CTF, we are thinking that right now the death tag is a little too strong.

    Here are some changes we are suggesting to make it a little more balanced:
    • Sword is Stone sharpness I instead of sharpness II
    • Death Tag’s damage amplification mechanic retains 1.5x bonus damage for the scout themself, but other classes only do 1.3x
    • Death Tag duration decreased by 5-10 seconds
      • Alternatively, a player who was death tagged within the last 20ish seconds cannot be death tagged during that duration, similar to the Swapper
      • Alternatively (again), death tag cooldown extended by a few seconds
    • Death Tag cannot be regained by killing an enemy who is not tagged (making the vampiric-like ability exclusive to Assassin)
    • Protection 29 Diamond Armor with fire aspect 17 and diamond swordbowpickaxe with sharpness 42 :stuck_out_tongue:

    Any thoughts about this are welcome! :slight_smile:
     
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    #1 Cardona2427, May 14, 2019
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  2. scapezar

    scapezar aka Scape

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    I like the slight nerfs and how it's done for all the points to aspects of the class where I don't think should be too OP tbh, but I don't think the last point is too necessary. Assassin and Scout have a lot of similarity (while also giving ninja competition), but I don't think we need to keep this ability unique to just assassin for the sake of uniqueness and/or as a way to nerf Scout. I find the ability quite balanced and rewarding; like if a Scout is about to die yet it finesses a kill off a ninja, then that'd be a cool reward by instantly giving Scout its Death Tag right before it may die. Just an opinion, great ideas!
     
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  3. Danimals_OW

    Danimals_OW New Member

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    death tag should also only apply if scout is alive, not halfway across the damn map
     
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  4. Foodcourt

    Foodcourt Member

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    I agree with nearly every point you made and think the changes would be beneficial, especially the 20 second period where you cannot be death tagged. I have been playing a good amount since the release of scout and the effects of death tag can be incredibly overwhelming when confronted with a large amount of defensive players at a time.

    Here I agree with what @scapezar said above. I would be willing to sacrifice one of the unique aspects of assassin if it would mean making scout just a little bit more fun to play. I think that reworking the death tag in the ways that you previously mentioned would ensure that scout regaining its tag after a kill wouldn't be too overbearing.
     
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  5. Keelb00

    Keelb00 Well-Known Member

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    Some interesting points, but I have to disagree with some of them (I've played a fair amount of scout, but not much against it).

    Without the death tag, Scout's PvP is reallllyyy weak. I think it dies in 3 hits to all offensive classes (maybe 4 for medic), so lets say 5-6 hits if it steaks. Without the death tag, its sword is similar to Heavy's, so taking a lot more than 5-6 hits to effectively damage any soldier, heavy, or medic on offence. Because of this, the class is very difficult to play properly without the death tag active - even with it active I think the damage is in the ballpark of a ninja.

    So let's say scout has ninja's damage with slightly more armour and 2 steak (which would be OP), but as a tradeoff you lose the element of surprise from invis, the knockback/debuff of eggs, and the mobility with pearls. On top of this, in order to apply the death tag I've usually found that I never get the first hit on the enemy (might be different for others, but ninja always gets the first hit).

    Because of this, the class feels so bad to play if it had a sharp 1 sword and had to respawn for death tag. The class is almost useless without the death tag, so giving it more time where it is useless makes it worse to play without necessarily helping much.

    In saying that, I definitely agree that if death tag feels too strong the other suggestions could be good. I like having the damage buff apply mostly to scout and decreasing the duration/adding a cooldown/removing it if the scout dies. My only worry is this may make stalemates worse. It is important to be careful to nerf parts of the class that are OP when an entire team is attacking you without nerfing the parts of the class that make it viable to play.
     
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  6. Cardona360

    Cardona360 Well-Known Member

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    You make a good point, the suggestion might be more biased since I prefer for each of the 3 no-armored damage dishing classes (Assassin, Ninja, and Scout) to be as different as possible. But considering the smaller chances of this class picking up kills often with the lowest speed ranking of the 3, this change is probably a bit unnecessary compared to the others.

    I personally disagree, if this were to happen then Scout would become too difficult to play as and almost redundant considering how fast it gets taken out (you could argue this with the recent ninja egg changes upon the ninja's death, but Scout is a recovery based class and focuses more on team damage rather than a 1v1 scenario seen with egg effects (ninja also survives MUCH better)). With a shortened duration of death tag, this problem is pretty much fixed.

    I agree with you here as with Scape :smile:

    You make a good point about being underpowered compared to ninja, but the sword becoming weaker could be considered separate from other changes (one of the many routes to take with this class). I have personally played as Scout quite a bit recently and I have found it difficult to leave significant damage on a class like medic at times without the tag (or saving the tag for later). Scout should be kept decently powerful in its own right while also being more support-orientated than classes such as Ninja and Assassin, which means you are not playing too similarly to the aforementioned; alas, if the sword does prevent it from doing good on its own in a similar fashion to Medic w/o Sharp I, then this change should be avoided to keep the class relevant.
     
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