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Scout and Assassin

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by PV__nRT, Jul 7, 2019.

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  1. PV__nRT

    PV__nRT Member

    Jul 30, 2016
    The TL;DR of this thread is that as far as I can tell, scout is a more flexible, longer-lasting, and unblockable assassin with more utility at little to no cost.

    By making use of the Elite that was given to me for getting a map into rotation (which was very helpful, by the way), I was able to play a good deal of scout.
    After taking the time to learn the class, I've come to the conclusion that the class is very intuitive due in part to its similarity to assassin, and upon further analysis, I've come to the conclusion that scout is often better than current assassin.

    I don't really have patience to make much more of an intro, so I'll get right into it.

    Let's first consider that scout is very similar to assassin:
    • Both scout and assassin have relatively low armor and relatively low sustain
    • Both scout and assassin have a single-use powerful mobility ability
    • Both scout and assassin have an incredibly deadly single-use offense ability
    • Both scout and assassin occupy the same single-target recovery niche
    With this in mind, it is relatively easy to think of scout as a "different" assassin.
    Keeping this idea in mind, these are the key differences between the two:
    • Scout has better armor than assassin and a better sword than assassin
    • Scout has two steak and assassin does not, but assassin also has healing on every kill and currently receives extra health for any assassinate kills
    • Assassin's speed boost is incredibly powerful in a vacuum, while scout's swap is just as powerful for mobility while also being able to (conditionally) disrupt enemy position
    • Assassinate instantly kills, which is objectively superior to increasing the damage a target takes, but assassinate can be blocked, which is objectively inferior to an unblockable ability that occupies a very similar role
    Now we can start addressing and interpreting these differences:
    • Scout having better armor and a better sword means that in those regards it is better than assassin.
    • Scout has steak that it can use at just about any time and (probably more importantly) during PvP engagements to heal four hearts. Assassin needs kills to heal itself for two and a half, which is to say that scout's healing is superior in the moment when it occurs, and it can heal itself without needing to secure a kill.
      • Assassin has more sustainable healing, but that healing is dependent on securing kills, which is almost the opposite of sustain.
        • Scout gets its steak restored from a medic heal, while assassin regains consumables that were going to regenerate anyway; so in the presence of a medic, scout has better sustain.
      • Assassin also receives extra hearts from assassinations, but those extra hearts are temporary, which means they contribute very little to long-term sustain
    • Assassin's speed boost is powerful in a vacuum, but isn't incredible in practice. Most flag carriers will see you coming regardless of the extra speed, and you can easily get pushed backwards if someone in front of you turns around and hits you. Conversely, while scout's swap seems very conditional, a scout will always be playing in a situation with other players and so there will always be a source of players with whom to swap. The ability provides a unique source of disruption and can lead to huge setbacks if used correctly.
    • Assassinate is an instant kill that is often inferior to archer's sniping mechanic due to the range of the latter. On top of that poor comparison, it (unlike a snipe) can be stopped entirely by holding right click. While an instant kill is absolute, so is blocking, and as a result, assassinate compares poorly to death tag. Death tag cannot be blocked, and will still almost always lead to a death on a carrier when combined with a swap and many combinations of other defensive classes. In other words, death tag is an ability that requires actual team play in a team game.
    As a smaller point, I'd like to discuss boosting.
    I am one to always complain about ninjas who act before they think who push flag carriers forward. Albeit less frequently, this also occurs with pyros, mages, and bulk defense classes.
    As an assassin one-trick, it irritates me to no end when I miss an easy instakill that a carrier wouldn't have noticed just because someone on my team pushes them past me. In many cases, it feels as though I would have recovered more often if those individuals hadn't been on my team.
    With scout, though, if a carrier is boosted, I can swap with them and mitigate the damage done by my teammates. In fact, swap is so powerful that if a carrier gets boosted further, I actually end up getting more room to set up a death tag when running backwards. I never get that opportunity with assassin.

    Long story short, I have a point to make here.
    In many ways, I see scout as a better assassin. As an assassin one-trick, I don't appreciate that.
    But I do really like scout. It's fun, it's satisfying, and it's effective. It's designed in such a great way that I don't want it to receive any significant changes beyond balance changes.
    On the other hand, assassin is so simple that it could receive a relatively significant change without actually straying too far from its identity.
    My request is to have an assassin change that pulls it away from the niche shared by the two classes. As it turns out, the extra health tweak doesn't really do enough for assassin's play (sorry Miskey), but the idea of rewarding multikills is a good idea, seeing as it allows scout to be the class that focuses more on single-target attacks.
    I have a few vague ideas, but this isn't an idea thread. This is the thread that's meant to allow others to come up with ideas, using this analysis and interpretation as a difference.

    As a last note, people are free to disagree with me. I'm very open to discussion. Go ahead and change my mind, if it's what you set out to do!
    • Like Like x 6
    #1 PV__nRT, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  2. Cardonation

    Cardonation CTF JMOD | Elf

    Oct 8, 2015
    Overall I have mixed feelings about the Scout/Assassin comparison. There is a lot to discuss, but I'll touch on my main points.

    Assassin can be called a lot of things, but one thing I think it has always had an exaggeration for is the risk factor (high risk, high reward, so any changes should keep this and not make the class too bulky). The one key difference I personally noticed between these two classes was Assassin's special kill ability can hit multiple enemies, while Scout's is bound to one. I agree with you on the fact that this could be an area to capitalize on with the class in terms of being rewarded (giving assassin the niche of getting stronger with each assassination; I say niche because Necro is a mess and we have no idea where it's going). You can do a lot of things from protection levels on the boots to decreased timers, but whatever happens in that case will make the class more fun and less one dimensional.

    Now what about an entire Assassin rework? It's very necessary to jump to 1.9 if that is desired, but right now Assassin still plays a crucial role in the game despite superior gimmicks from other classes. If changes done to it are significant, the whole system will be affected.

    Also yes, Scout is very fun and effective, good class :smile:

    With all that being said, both classes are in line for receiving changes, meaning we may see something interesting coming from Assassin to give it more defined niche compared to Ninja and Scout. (not to say the Health Boost wasn't interesting, but I believe it was just the beginning).
    • Like Like x 1
  3. DeadRhos

    DeadRhos Blips, Drips And Strips

    May 17, 2015
    Agree, scout fills assassin's roles far more effectively than assassin does at this point, there's no reason to have two classes doing roughly the same thing. I'd be in support of a general role change for assassin since its position in the metagame gas been a bit confused since people figured out how to block consistently. Maybe you could remove its vulnerability to poison pots to make it more defensive, or stop it from receiving knockback for more effective recovery/chasedown. You could even give it a block disguise or tag colour swap function to make it more stealthy.

    My point is there's lots of creative stuff you can do with it, you just need to figure out what it does first.
    • Like Like x 2
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