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Looking for Feedback - Elf tweaks

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Nohox, Jul 7, 2019.

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  1. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    Hey there friends,

    Last week we saw a small change to Assassins health gain being tested. This testing phase will draw to a close on Monday, July 8th. To continue the flow, we will test the following changes to Elf from Monday, July 8th to Monday, July 15th. As usual, please vote in the according ingame poll that will come up a day or two after testing starts. Feel free to also voice your opinion on this thread.

    Changes:
    - Elf armor: Full set of Protection II leather armor
    - Elf sword: Increase to Sharpness II
    - Elf wind element: Revert to old wind element
    - Elf water element: Increase splash zone Regeneration level to III and increase the duration to 8 s

    We tested giving the old wind element a stronger push than before, but felt even a minor increase would make the push too powerful. Also apologies for the recent lag on the CTF servers, background work has been done and it should now run smoothly again. Results of the ingame poll of Assassin and Discord poll of Chemist will be announced in the next thread.

    Enjoy!

    - The CTF staff team
     
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    #1 Nohox, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  2. Kayrex

    Kayrex Ex JMOD

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  3. 915

    915 Active Member

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    Me:
    upload_2019-7-7_16-45-30.png
     
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  4. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Active Member

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  5. cammanduh

    cammanduh Well-Known Member

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    wheres earth element tbh? i find it rather odd that we replaced a useful movement restricting ability with another, and then just removed the concept altogether, when earth element was perfectly fine in the first place. add back earth element with a cooldown of sorts to stop the wallspamming soldiers from crying about it (2-3 seconds?), and to actually bring an ability to stop wallspamming soldiers and bring greater stalemate tactics to end stalemates, so that a soldier cannot wall spam away from a frenzying pyro.
     
  6. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Active Member

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    Also by reverting back to old wind I assume the wind 15 block flag radius will be taken away? I think old wind will play a good part in recovery for stalemates also
     
  7. Islendingur

    Islendingur Bunny

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    I agree with 915, would love to see the earth element again, used to play elf a bit until earth element was removed
     
  8. redslime

    redslime Lead Developer

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    Yes
     
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  9. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    Earth element was removed if I recall correctly because it caused lag, and/or players didn't like it being spammed. Earth element was frequently regulated in matches, for example. It was removed in favour of vortex wind pulling players together.
     
  10. cammanduh

    cammanduh Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, that's why I suggested adding a cooldown in my post. Lag is also an easy fix, but it never caused lag for me.

    If you're referring to you not being allowed to spam it at a flag carrier or flagpost on your team, yes. But then again, the same is true for archer, pyro, mage. Guess we have to remove their abilities as well. Also, when did matches become the focus, instead of regular games?

    I'm well aware of that... that's why I mentioned it in my first line.
    But now we have nothing in its place, just one less ability for elf. And to be quite honest, the community is still annoyed and angry about the large amounts of stalemates, and wall spam, especially on maps such as blackout. And I get it, the addition of Scout was supposed to help in this regard. I suggested adding back earth element, with a cooldown, to make it easier to recover in a stalemate when used in cooperation with another class, such as Pyro or Archer. Earth element the dude to keep him from wallspamming away, and frenzy or headshot him. But instead of taking the suggestion of a community member into account, you hardly read it and took the piss out of it on another thread. Job well done, I guess.
     
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  11. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    I had the feeling it might be taken the wrong way, I did not mean to take a piss on anyone. I was looking for a more lengthy reply I could copy paste due to the similarity of Admirals post to this thread and the slightly altered meme in the comments, so I chose yours, it was completely independent of your points and was not meant to belittle you at all. Apologies if I made this impression.

    I did read your comment completely as I do with all comments on such threads. Increasing cooldowns to balance abilities has the disadvantage of making the playing slower for the class, and due to its low popularity in general it made more sense to remove it altogether (or in this case, get incorporated into vortex). Soldier wall spam was a major issue back then, hence the introduction of Elfs earth element. But since the game has changed, a new, mobile class was introduced that can forcefully remove you from any camping position effectively. Actually, during a Blackout stalemate in a match yesterday, the main problem wasn't Soldier clinging to the wall, it was the fact it was surrounded by Medics and Chemists to protect it. That's the main reason Scout was made, to break up that protection and end stalemates faster.

    Do you still think Soldier wall climbing out of danger is a big issue? If so, I'd propose giving an already existing element the ability to deplete soldiers wall climb mana pool faster, instead of having a particle intensive immobilizing ability. That should make it considerably harder for Soldiers to wall climb while still giving them a moderate range of freedom for horizontal movement.
     
  12. ItalianPenguin

    ItalianPenguin Well-Known Member

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    I hear all these good things about the old wind element, but here's my opinion on it-


    I never was a fan of the old wind effect, and liked the new wind vortex effect (rip earth element). But when I heard the old wind potentially coming back, I wanted to give it a try again.

    Personally, I was disappointed....

    I find the old wind really 'meh' compared to vortex, the wind just pushes people a few blocks away or launches them a few blocks, but only doing half a heart of damage (if even) [but players can be launched higher if you aim it just right if the player is on the edge of a block].

    Though the pushing players away is good for defence/flag carrier support, it weakens Elf's offending capability.

    I hear arguments about how it's good to stop archers in difficult areas to reach, but that can be countered by Archer or the newer Scout class.


    What I would like to see is maybe a greater chance of players being launched up higher by it, or maybe giving them some potion effect for 1-2 seconds, just as a way to buff the effect; or maybe some combination of vortex and old wind, where players get pushed in and then pushed out.

    But anyway, there was my view on the wind effect.
     
  13. WillB88

    WillB88 New Member

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    I had sort of got used to the vortex, but I think I am glad to see the old wind element back. However after using it for a bit it seems too weak and not as helpful as it was origionally? I dont know if that is just my shooting but it definitely seems less powerful.
    Also with no earth element we cannot stop soldiers and other fast or mobile classes (ninja could be slowed quite a bit with earth, and old wind is too hard to use accurately with their speed 2) and the vortex didnt help because the soldier could use the wall climbing ability to jump out of the vortex, so essentially the vortex did not hold the soldier in place at all.
    Perhaps it would be nice to see the old wind have a 0.5 - 1 sec vortex effect after the opponent is blown away? Hence allowing the elf a little time to manoeuvre and either escape or get another shot prepared?...
    Bringing something back like earth element or similar would definitely appeal to me, as earth element always used ot be my favourite!
     
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  14. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Active Member

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    I actually have to agree with this statement, idk if it was just me either but it seemed like the wind element wasnt sending people as high/far as it should be

    Ive managed to play the elf tweak in a competive scenario in a recent PPM. These are my thoughts.

    - Elf armor: Full set of Protection II leather armor. This helps a ton and makes the class usable for non-elf mains. However for a competitive scene it can really damage elf. Whenever getting the enemy flag, it was much easier due to taking less damage from the roaming which is a plus. However when elf has the flag one ninja hit deals 4 hearts without crits, crits whenever the elf is flying or being buffed. I noticed that whenever elf is flying ninjas can 2 tap the carrier as the sword does 4 1/2 - 5 hearts per hit. This is a Big Problem that needs fixed. To prevent these 2 taps in my opinion prot 3 should be added to the chestplate again, however keep the helmet without protection or keep protection 1.

    - Elf sword: Increase to Sharpness II. Great, anti-ninja, exactly what the class needed. Nothing more else to be said.

    - Elf wind element: Revert to old wind element. Im still using this ill get back to you on this one.

    - Elf water element: Increase splash zone Regeneration level to III and increase the duration to 8 s. Honestly the regen 3 is amazing. Heals 3 1/2 hearts if you go in the water, and 7 if you stay in the water for both ticks. So much better than just regen 2 that healed 1 1/2 hearts.

    Elf is finally viable for people who dont just main the class which is good. Hopefully now more people will start to use elf in casual and competitive play. Great job.
     
  15. redslime

    redslime Lead Developer

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    @WillB88 @Northernlreland the wind element that is being tested right now has exactly the same values as back then.
     
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  16. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Active Member

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    Ah ok great
     
  17. WillB88

    WillB88 New Member

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    I agree that this must be the case as that would then be the exact "old wind element". However I may like to see it buffed a bit either in strength or what I mentioned above. This is because, from testing, I still have not managed to create fall damage to anyone and it is not as helpful as I remeber in gerenal gameplay. Since it does not do any direct damage i.e. the opponent has to take fall damage which is quite rare, then I dont see too much of a problem buffing the strength of the wind effect.

    Oh and btw I agree that the sharp 2 is great and the prot 2 a slight advantage. Also I really like the regen 3 and think it will really encourage me to use the water element more. (as i already have and its great) Its already made a difference with holding the flag but having no steak so the regen has given me more of a chance
     
  18. LazySling

    LazySling Tik Tok Famous

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    Ive already said this in #suggestions in the CTF discord, but I'll say it again here.

    Due to the Armor "buff" Elf Offense (how most people play the class) has been nerfed drastically. As Northern said earlier, Elf currently has the potential to be 2 shot by a Ninja. This can occur by both critical hits, and while flying through the air (since every hit in the air is a crit). I cant really think of anyone (besides diehard elf mains) who would want to try and play Elf offense when they could be 2 shot by a Ninja, which is already one of the most annoying classes in CTF. My suggestion, as previously stated by Northern, is to give us a Protection 3 chest plate and a helmet with no enchants or Protection 1. Alternatively, you could just revert Elf armor back to the way it was (I didn't really have an issue with it).

    As for Old Wind, now I wasn't personally maining the class when it was around, so its actually quite new to me. However as with all new things, they take time to adjust to and get good with. So at the moment I wouldn't suggest buffing the old wind if it is in fact a direct copy from when it was around long ago. Wait till people get good at using it.

    Everything else is great in my opinion and should stay around permanently.
     
  19. Billhelm

    Billhelm Active Member

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    CTF getting updates every month? What a time to be alive.
    Imagine they would've done this in CTF's golden days :')
     
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