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Don't be scared of 1.14

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Billhelm, Jul 29, 2019.

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  1. Billhelm

    Billhelm Active Member

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    Just want to throw this out...
    I think the community should really consider updating CTF... finally.

    "BUt biLL ThE upDaTed PvP sUX"

    Yes it does.

    But there's ways to manouver around this and from this point there's more upsides than downsides.
    You can easily get rid of the cooldown system that vanilla minecraft has nowadays. It's also no problem to adjust broken damage values of axes. Sadly sword blocking would disappear... that would mean Assassin would require a big rework (isn't that a good thing lmao?) and maybe you'd have to adjust some damage or health values with blocking being gone...

    And suddenly there's a land.. full of new possibilities..
    - Lingering Potions and new potion effects in general
    - Crossbows
    - Tridents
    - A good start to fix Necros Mob AI (maybe)
    - Dual Wielding
    - Shields (heard dwarf still sux... maybe a shield, making the class unique, would suit it)
    - etc...


    I'm pretty sure the staff would do it's best to limit the changes so we'd get a smooth transition.
    I know people are allergic to change but you really limit CTF in what it could be.
    .. coming from someone who's played around with 1.14 recently.

    Cheers.
     
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    #1 Billhelm, Jul 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  2. Carsonn

    Carsonn #1 WarZ Looter

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    Another thing to point out is that Mojang has released a snapshot that looks to be another revamp of the combat system, and it actually makes pvp more closely aligned with the 1.8 style. I've played with it a little bit and it's not perfect, but I think after retouching some parts of it, Mojang will eventually be able to do a good job of undoing the ****show that is 1.9 pvp
     
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  3. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans, Reports & Appeals Manager | 10 Year McPvPer

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    I'm going to preface this by saying that I do not support updating Brawl to 1.14. However, this is only because of new combat's unpopularity - 1.14 is so much better, it's hard to reasonably justify staying on 1.8 for any reason other than "the community hates it".

    The new combat can changed to be similar to old combat very easily. The attack cooldown is very easy to completely disable. The blocking mechanic is rather different, but on old combat, the only strategy blocking introduces is blockhitting, which is boring. Blocking on new combat is much more tactical. This only other changes are small knockback calculation changes, small reach calculation changes, and slightly smaller hitboxes. These changes are unnoticeable unless you are very sweaty at PvP - and they will take you maybe 30-60 minutes to get used to it.

    New combat is genuinely better than old combat. The changes are negligible for everything other than blocking (which is a terrible mechanic in old combat). Even if you think new combat is worse, it's hard to justify it being unplayable, and very hard to justify skipping 6 updates to keep it. The difference between 1.8 and 1.14 is honestly bigger than the difference between 1.0 and 1.8 - there are so many possibilities that haven't been explored because Minecraft's playerbase is allergic to change and refuses to update.

    As well as the new additions, performance on 1.14-only servers is much better than performance on 1.8-1.14 servers. 1.14 is known for not being very stable, but supporting 6 vastly different versions is a major challenge. I don't know much about how Brawl handles cross-version compatibility, but Hypixel has to load the same world 3 times in order to have 1.8-1.14. It's very difficult to support all of it, and if we fully updated to 1.14 then performance would be much better.

    The only downside major downside of updating to 1.14 is waiting for public plug-ins to update. The only one we use which takes more than a few days to update is FAWE (hence why 1.13 Build is still 1.13). But this is a minor setback considering the advantages of upgrading fully to 1.14.

    As @Carsonn said, there is a new combat update coming soon - the snapshot is out and combat is much better than 1.14 and 1.8 combat. It'll be very disappointing if the community refuses to update even after this, especially when the main complaint for most servers is a lack of fresh updates.

    Again - I'm going to try to completely block any attempt to update to 1.14 for as long as the community hates the update so much, despite how irrational that sentiment is. However, I would absolutely prefer Brawl to be on the newer version, especially when 1.15 rolls out (which is also going to be fixing performance).
     
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  4. scapezar

    scapezar Ex-Ban/Appeal Manager | Ex-Hack Test Manager

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    there might be hope x d
    ill hold off on my opinion until i feel the pvp for myself and to see if there are any potential custom improvements we or others (can) make to the pvp ...

    itll be an inevitable hard transition, but with loads of opportunity if we do it right
     
  5. Fourr_

    Fourr_ ex Media Sub-Manager | ex Party Mod | Builder

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    Is minecraft really almost on 1.15 already? Wow. anyways, my way of thinking about it is like all the different windows versions.
    Windows 7 - good, easy to learn and use. (1.8 and below)
    Windows 8 - what were they honestly thinking (1.9 and above)
    Windows 10 - a mixture of both (1.15)
    I think this new combat system rework would be a mixture of both the systems just like windows 10. It would certainly make everything every interesting. Hopefully after stable versions of the plugins Brawl uses come out the server will be able to update. it would certainly be refreshing. There will be loads of new opportunities for Brawl and we shall see them as long as Mojang doesn't screw it up.
     
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    #5 Fourr_, Jul 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  6. FruztalProjects

    FruztalProjects Active Member

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    I believe Mojang has released snapshots to fix the PVP system that they messed up back in 1.9 that’s why everyone still uses 1.8.9
     
  7. Cardonation

    Cardonation CTF JMOD | CMS Leader

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    Honestly, as stated before many times, the possibilities with 1.14 overly justify the decision to update. I believe with the snapshot and some tweaking, the PvP differences can easily be circumvented (the major thing I know people don't like are smaller hitboxes); the server in general and CTF are not purely PvP based, albeit PvP is a strong component (people will adjust overtime if new content is added to keep them interested despite changes). Other than that, the leap of faith definitely needs to be calculated. Many technical things should be taken into consideration and plans for a big update involving 1.9+ content should be presented before confirming the switch.
     
  8. Spades_

    Spades_ Former CTF Mod

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    If the issue with pvp can be maneuvered around, is there an actual argument for not updating to the latest version?
     
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  9. FruztalProjects

    FruztalProjects Active Member

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    No not necessarily. But still Mojang has released snapshots for Minecraft which will most likely be 1.15. This is just an opinion from me.
     
  10. Versions

    Versions CTF Moderator

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    Despite fixing the PvP issue, some people have said that switching between versions would be a pain, especially most servers that people play are still on 1.8 (e.g. PvP servers). So if we updated to 1.14, or even 1.15 if it comes out and seems to have improved combat, people would have to constantly switch back and forth from 1.14/15 to 1.8, unless these servers update. This isn't just a Brawl issue, it's the PvP community as a whole. If 1.15 manages to improve combat, hopefully it means that most servers will then update to 1.15, which would get rid of this switching issue.
     
  11. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    Five reasons:
    1) Habit, players have been playing for five years on 1.8.9 and the past has shown that any big changes are first met with scepticism and disapproval
    2) 1.9+ PvP with cooldowns, which we can fix by emulating 1.8. combat, and decide later if to keep that or move to 1.15 combat
    3) Players have to update their clients, which could mean loss of players as several smaller servers are also on 1.8.9
    4) Problems ingame, e.g., Elf shield (easily fixable) and Assassin blocking (needs rework)
    5) The Raid community is pretty old school and prefers to be on 1.7 because of more challenging combat and hardcore enchanting without hints

    That being said several points can be worked around, and the rest have to be adressed carefully.
     
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  12. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost CTF Media Man

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    BUt biLL ThE upDaTed PvP sUX
     
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  13. Spades_

    Spades_ Former CTF Mod

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    Sounds like a personal problem tbh
    1. It’s not hard to switch between versions of the game, it literally takes maybe 25 seconds.
    2. Easily fixable, so is it really an issue?
    3. Update their hacked clients? But I guess finding a new toggle sprint and optifine for 1.15/1.14 would take about 10 minutes, so that would be a pain.
    4. Again if it’s easily fixable then is it really issue?
    5. The raid community is old school. So because the raid community is old school... the whole server shouldn’t be updated?

    What I meant by issues is actual game breaking issues like “the game will literally not function if we update”. If something’s easily fixable what’s the problem? Not to mention people who might have to spend a minute switching between 1.8 and 1.14 or those who have to spend almost 5-10 minutes finding new mods to play the game is not a reason to not update the server. Denying an update that would be a incredibly beneficial because people would have to update their clients seems like a foolish decision.
     
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  14. Fourr_

    Fourr_ ex Media Sub-Manager | ex Party Mod | Builder

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    I mean.. couldn't we do a community poll on the news and announcement forum when the time comes? See if the new 1.15 is really what we want? We could maybe even try a temporary test version of 1.15 combat for ctf if the staff are up to it and see if its actually enjoyable.
     
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  15. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

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    Regarding 1), switching is not hard, but every time you switch between 1.8.9 and 1.14 your controls reset and your texturepacks unloads. Quite annoying so I don't know how long players would keep up with that. At this point of time, I believe CTF is fit to migrate to 1.14 besides the aforementioned issues with classes that use blocking. I don't know what the status with other gamemodes is, Build for example is still using 1.13 on Build #3 because WorldEdit hasn't updated yet. If clients (legit ones, not hacked ones) are an issue, an alternative could be to update to a 1.13 version, although that seems rather unlikely.

    That was the plan, although I am somewhat concerned that it will backfire and players will vote to stay on 1.8.9 out of the reasons stated above. I don't see a future-proof alternative of updating and obviously we could clarify that the vote won't be the final decision, but it would still leave a bitter taste changing something so major when the community is against it.
     
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  16. Spades_

    Spades_ Former CTF Mod

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    are you saying it’s possible to update individual servers and not the entire server? In that case each game mode could poll to which game mode they’d like to see. Important to note that it’s impossible to please everyone, regardless of what choice is made. A poll is the most fair way to go about it, just expect backlash regardless of what ends up happening.
     
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  17. minecraftnoob999

    minecraftnoob999 Well-Known Member

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    No.

    And let me preface this by saying, I play 1.14 when I want to enjoy minecraft. I play CTF when I want to kill *****es.

    1.14 is good for one thing, SMP. That's it. Quite literally.

    1.7-1.8. is for PVP.
     
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  18. 5ive_Head

    5ive_Head Well-Known Member

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    Can we downgrade to 1.7.10? ngl, I liked that version better... xD

    This is going to sound super contradictory to what I've said in the past, but I think they should change to 1.15. Trust me, I'd prefer having 1.7 or 1.8, because of the pvp style. But as a business, your job isn't to keep the nostalgia going... As a business, you guys need to ignore the community and what they think as long as it better for the business. WOW!?!? ikr... When the pyro nerf came out I said the complete opposite. But I guess I was a bit naive back then, too. Why do I say this now, though? Because I realized after the pyro nerf how op pyro really was. Loved playing with it, but hated playing against it. That's exactly how I play league btw too. I hated when people played Yasuo/Garen so now of course, I play Yasuo and Garen. Now, Brawl isn't a top-tier server in terms of player count. It may be like mid-tier but I don't think it's ever really caught everyone's attention. So I wouldn't completely remove the old version of MCCTF (1.8), but maybe it would be a good idea to have two versions of CTF- One version 1.8 and the most updated version and I know this isn't a popular idea because people say it will split the community. I don't think it'll split it but rather force people to play both versions of Minecraft CTF and whichever one sticks with the community, the community will use. Why I say that is because, Me, kirby2ig, and redslime all made an older version of CTF once (all from scratch) and we got as many people we could on discord to join the server and play it. Now, keep in mind it wasn't 100% prepared, but it basically instantly died because people went back to the regular CTF. In conclusion, I don't think having 2 servers of CTF will split the community, I think 1.15 is good, and the staff should just ignore the community. However, coding it will be a pain, so I totally understand not wanting to do that if it's too much work.
     
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  19. Grenzo

    Grenzo Well-Known Member

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    1.7.10 > 1.14
     
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  20. JaxonCA12

    JaxonCA12 Member

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    Come on, guys. 1.8.9 came out on December 9, 2015. That's almost four years ago.

    It's time to move on.
     
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