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Raid Update Ideas (Part 2)

Discussion in 'Raid' started by Necromancer51572, Nov 21, 2019.

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Which changes would you like to see implemented? Select all that apply.

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  1. Necromancer51572

    Necromancer51572 Team Pork

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    Hey folks, I know it has been a while, but I wanted to resume the discussion around Raid's current state and why it is not at all resembling of a true raid server. As always, feel free to pm me on discord with questions, and please leave any feedback below.

    In light of some responses I have recieved and direct chat with some individuals, I would like to begin by discussing what Raid truly is, and what Brawl's Raid is doing wrong.

    'Raid' as it is called now, is actually 'Hardcore PvP'. This means that it is essentially a Hardcore gamemode, meaning mostly vanilla. There is a shop to encourage trading, and the currency is Gold to improve the ability to use the 2nd major plugin- Tracking. There are also warps, used to store locations to revisit with ease. Since it is soup pvp, there is also mob capturing to allow use of mushroom cows for soups.
    This is basically it. (There are a few other minuscule features like teams, etc.) Other than this, the Hardcore PvP Raid gamemode is entirely vanilla. Which brings me to today's topics:

    1. KOTHS
    Koth is an event that is appealing to the pvp community. Ideally, players will come to koth and fight for prizes worth fighting for. However, this means using your own loot to fight for control. Due to this, players will likely demand in-game items as reward for victory. While this could work in theory, it is flawed on two fundamental levels.
    a. This requires infusing goods into a gamemode, which does not align with the nature of a Hardcore gamemode. I will propose an alternative.
    b. Even with team caps, and in an ideal world with many players, when real loot is up for grabs, teams will form alliances and either split loot, or take turns winning. This will close to guarantees each team a partial victory every time​
    In my eyes, KOTH can be fixed one of three ways.
    1. Remove it completely. This is a factions minigame, and doesn't really fit the whole style of the Hardcore gamemode, because unless you infuse loot, no one will want to compete.
    2. Make the KOTH event a free-for-all and have teaming result in being ejected from the event. This will require a lot of supervision, but minimizes the loot infusion aspect and works for unpopulated servers.
    3. Similar to 2, make it FFA, except also make it single elimination, meaning 1 death and you're gone, and make the prize for the single winner be a week of elite. This is a good reward, and as seen by BBH's old HG streams, friends are willing to fight for the potential of a free rank.
    2. End Event
    This goes hand in hand with spawner changing. The only purpose of this event is to give players the potential to get a dragon egg to change spawners. I will reiterate the negative effects of spawners for arguments sake-
    Changing spawners is NOT in any way Hardcore. This is simply a way to make farming items easier for players. Sure, there's a risk of being raided, but the new members of the community hardly seem to be interested in tracking so this risk is minimal. Changing to an enderman spawner, you can make plenty of gold selling pearls, or have a leg up in away from spawn pvp. Changing to pigman spawners creates gold inflation. Changing to villager spawners makes it incredibly easy to farm emeralds, and in turn OP gear. Changing to passive mob spawners makes getting miscellaneous items easier. Etc.​
    In my opinion, the end event is pointless. The end should be closed and the end event should be removed. This event also draws in players by offering in game loot, which is the same idea as discussed in the Koth section.​
    3. Enchantment System
    a. Enchanting
    I am a firm believer that the 1.8 enchantment system makes it way too easy to enchant. Since you can bottle XP, you can simply enchant stone items with level 1 until the desired enchantment is listed. This means there is no real trouble in enchanting, other than patience. ​

    I believe that enchantment hints should be fully removed. There is no harm in doing this except making players get more XP and enchant more armor or tools. ​
    b. Salvaging
    Despite plenty of talk of salvaging, I am firmly against this idea. Allowing for salvaging actually devalues tools and ores. If I raid an iron pvp bank with a dib of each, averaging half broken, I would be able to salvage this into about 10 stacks of iron, and a dub of swords would be about 100 diamonds. This means I can store pvp items in their raw form, much more safely since it takes up less space and therefore less time to transfer to and from chests.

    Another issue is that, if enchanting for diamond armor, the only cost is now XP, or afk time, since mobs spawn on their own. This means you are guaranteed to get the perfect item, so long as you afk enough. This devalues ores, mostly diamonds, because it minimizes the cost and therefore the amount of mining required. So, if it takes on average 3 tries to get the perfect enchant, diamonds are now about 3 times less valuable. Instead of taking about 72 diamonds to get an OP armor set, it will take just 24 and some afk time.​
    c. Anvils
    Anvils serve a few purposes, two main purposes being to repair items, and combine enchantments. I believe that, along with enchanting being more difficult, anvil costs should be slightly more similar to 1.7. Costs to repair max enchanted items should be about 25 to 30 levels. Also with this, I would recommend keeping the cost at a consistent level, rather than increasing each time you repair. I believe this is worth it, because you can be guaranteed to maintain any item for a steady cost, so long as it doesn't break. This puts more value on the existing enchanted items you have, since they are harder to acquire. A similar approach can be taken for combining items. ​
    Conclusion
    Change 1 will result in better pvp experience in any player count, and likely draw in some other players for the nice reward. Or, to counter the draw of other game modes, simply make it only a raid rank.

    Change 2 is to eliminate spawner changing and loot infusion. Both of these are extremely bad for the gamemode fundamentally.

    Change 3 will result in higher value being placed on enchanted gear. Coupled with no spawner changes, there will be significantly less 'multi-sets' style pvp. Players will likely be more cautious in storing their loot, and more interested in tracking to steal loot from others.​
     
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  2. BrosBeforeHoes_

    BrosBeforeHoes_ Well-Known Member

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    Changing spawners isnt really a part of raid. I would say changing the dragon egg into a end key like have a certain end reward system.
    Also changing spawners just removes the whole point of hardcore. You could get so much p4 in such little of time. But also if you get raised you could easily get that p4 back with easy villager grinding.
    I would say keep obsidian gold farm but remove the spawner changing. It's so inconvenient especially if one team gets the egg every week.
    For koths I would say keep them the Sam's but add chances at getting other stuff or redo the rewards. If you had moths I would say you should get what that koths restrictions are. Like for example if there was a diamond moth, then you would get maybe god tools but not god armor. Risking diamond armor is not fair to get p4 off it. And I think the koth armor restrictions could be in place so you cant bring so many sets and gapples. Now some players go to koth with 3 or 4 sets and a stack of gapples.
    I also think that iron salvaging wouldn't make a big difference so I'd rather it not get added because it would make getting iron or diamonds quicker.
     
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  3. CalledRainer

    CalledRainer Well-Known Member

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    Koths:
    1) Change the rewards to custom items (p5 unbr4 fortune4 eff6 but only 1 book at a time)
    2) Reduce the amount of keys to 4-5 per Team ( as long as raid has this few players). (Last couple of koths we had people complaining about lacking competition when they teamed up to fill 1 team of 10)

    End Event:
    1)Loot should be cutsom enchanted books as well.
    2)The player who dealt the most damage to the Dragon should receive 8-10 lvl 30ies

    Enchanting:
    1)Remove enchantment hints
    2) Salvaging should be a thing for iron armour. Its ridiculous how much you get when actively playing and getting daily raids. I just started to burn it after a week of playing. This would also give some incentive to me to Play iron koths. Iron armour would have more vaule
    3) Anvils: I really like the idea of keeping repair cost the same, however 20 lvl should do it.
    4) Just remove 1.8 villager trading completely. Whether it is a spawner of a breeder, both are WAY too op once you have set them up.

    Boosters:
    1) The instant break of stone HAS TO BE removed with mining boosters. Its just breaking the game economy. I know Putty wants the Money but when there is a healthy game economy the intrest in the map wont fade as quickly and the loss of income of the boosters will be easily compensated by rank purchases
    2) The double xp Booster can stay the same as long as my suggestions on the enchanting System are implemented. Increasing repair costs also inceases the chance of a player buying a booster to do a repair session.
    3) The double loot booster can stay as it is as well. However the trick with the recapturing of slimes has to be fixed. i still have 3 rows of slimeballs from day 2 of the map which i farmed in 30 min.

    Enderpearls: Just remove them completely, just as they were in Spvp in 2015.
     
  4. Necromancer51572

    Necromancer51572 Team Pork

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    I again disagree here. Salvaging is not very hardcore, and I have always thought that. You should not be able to raid a pvp bank if you are running low on iron. If you raid a pvp bank, you should be stuck with pvp gear. If you want iron, go mine, or raid a vault.

    Custom items are extremely out of the realm of hardcore. You are giving players a literal edge on others based on results of an event. This is not hardcore. This is something you'd see in OP factions. The only way I see to fix koth is to make it a free for all, where the winner gets a week long rank. This could even be split into a 'top 3' category where the 3 last players get a key for a random item, from tags to ranks.

    I am a firm believer that giving players items runs the game economy, and when those items are custom enchantments, or a level above the rest, then I say it is a hard line that is not to be crossed, else we risk being more like OP factions and less like Hardcore PvP Raid.
     
  5. NinetyThree

    NinetyThree Member

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    well I wouldn't be surprised if a team let's one of each member taking turns of winning so everyone gets a rank.
    there are ways to team up on others like purposely quickdropping. It would be fairly hard to moderate these kind of events and to tell who's teaming or not.
    Then there has to be a punishment for those that team. Which then results in half the server getting banned. It's also especially hard because then we need staff to be on every FFA event and what are the chances of that when one of our raid mods have less playtime than more than half of the server and another one that hasn't logged on raid for longer than 5minutes in over a month

    I don't like the idea of ffa and the prize of a rank but I don't think they should keep the koth system we have at the moment.
     
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    #5 NinetyThree, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  6. Twhat

    Twhat Active Member

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    Koths
    I see 2 solutions:
    1) Remove koths
    2) Keep koths but changing prizes. I think prizes shouldn't be ranks but in my opinion they should be cosmetic items like tags and colors.

    End Event
    I totally agree with Necromancer. End Event is pointless. Closing end would make obsidian grinding harder. Instead of mining in end Raid should add redstone obsidian generators.

    Enchanting and repairing

    Enchanting is very easy right now. You will always get what you want. Firstly hints should be removed from enchanting. Then there is question: 1.8 or 1.7 enchanting. I would say 1.7 with xp bottles or 1.8 without xp bottles. Salvaging shouldn't be thing as long as there are ****TY iron traxors. And before we are going to change anything we have to go look villager at spawn. It has to get removed. IT IS STEP #1. And what comes to anvils make them 1.7 or always same repair cost (more than 25)
     
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  7. Necromancer51572

    Necromancer51572 Team Pork

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    Punishment wouldn't be ban or kick. Just ejection from the event. I agree that it could be tough to moderate, I am not sure how this could be solved, might take some discussion. It would be quite easy to see obvious teaming, and with enough players, being passive toward teammates is not an issue really, since you'd likely die anyways.
     
  8. rmure

    rmure custom title

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    delete raid
     
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  9. CalledRainer

    CalledRainer Well-Known Member

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    LOL

    Why are you so keen on not having Team fights? Imo they are the funniest Thing on raid unless they are a 8v3, which can easily be solved by decreasing the amount of koth keys from 10 to 4 or 5
     
  10. Necromancer51572

    Necromancer51572 Team Pork

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    Simple solution- make the koth event scoring system different. Currently it is a 'capture the objective' style event with infinite lives. Perhaps this isn't the most ideal system to use for raid?

    How do you feel about, rather than this, having it be an event based on having 1 life, and only players who have the most (insert new objective here) are left. Maybe like a last man standing event? Or perhaps KOTH is 30 minutes long and whichever 3 or 5 players are on the platform longest win? This may be better to replace the team capture style. Rather than fighting away from koth, teams try to push hard to the platform and keep fights on the platform, without falling off. Of course you could ban knockback and punch to balance this.
     
  11. rmure

    rmure custom title

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    i was expecting to be banned for this but whatever floats your boat
     
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  12. NinetyThree

    NinetyThree Member

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    why would they ever add this
     
  13. Twhat

    Twhat Active Member

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    Because this gamemode needs them and they have always been part of Raid
     
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  14. CalledRainer

    CalledRainer Well-Known Member

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    If they should remove the end because its so easy to get obby there why does raid need obby gens to make getting obby easier than mining in a cave? This makes absolutely 0 sense and is bs
     
  15. Twhat

    Twhat Active Member

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    If you arent stupid you understand that placing redstones take time. Actually obbymining is slower with obsidian generators
     
  16. Necromancer51572

    Necromancer51572 Team Pork

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    Pretty sure I did the math on this already a while ago...... Redstone obby gens are fine by me personally, so long as it is impossible to make afk obby farms.
     
  17. CalledRainer

    CalledRainer Well-Known Member

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    My mam when its slower why is there a need to add it xD Lmao

    All it is is a waste of dev time
     
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  18. Twhat

    Twhat Active Member

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    It feels like it's faster
     
  19. Necromancer51572

    Necromancer51572 Team Pork

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    Rainer, the Script for obby gens is like 15 lines long.........
     
  20. NinetyThree

    NinetyThree Member

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    They have? which map(s)
     
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