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Change Targeting Protocol

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Mnkynoodles, Dec 24, 2019.

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  1. Mnkynoodles

    Mnkynoodles Member

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    I mentioned this in CTF Community Discord but:


    change targeting protocols. as its over a long period of time for a specific person, that doesnt really apply to randies/new players as after getting targeted for a short amount of time, they leave and dont come back, leading to lack of players. This can also apply to veterans targeting veterans.
     
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  2. auromelt

    auromelt CTF Mod ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ // Green Fox & Hedgehog Lover

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    Honestly I entirely agree with this. Targeting is definitely a huge problem in CTF regarding player retention, with many newbs getting spawncamped or kill-farmed, causing them to leave and never come back most of the time. The staff team would definitely need to look into how they can and should tweak the targeting protocol but I believe it is doable, and if done correctly it would solve many of the issues new players are facing. CTF needs more new players!!!
     
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  3. SoCool21

    SoCool21 7 Year McPvPer

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    We already do punish for targeting new players (and have done before). If someone targets several new players for a small amount of time, they can be punished. This may need to be made more clear in the rules.
     
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  4. Forleb

    Forleb Well-Known Member

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    Just going to leave my definitions here

    Targeting is the consistent & consecutive killing/damaging of a player (often multiple) in which case the victim does not want to or is not able to fight back. If a player asks or tells the killer to stop, and the killer continues to attack them, then it is also considered targeting. I would consider your average targeter to acquire at least 10 kills on a given player within a 5 minute time period, with constant hostility from the killer, and one or both of the above instances of the victim.

    Advantage Targeting is essentially targeting based on the killer's class, and what it counters the hardest. Common instances would be Chemist vs. Assassin, Assassin vs. Mage, Ninja vs. Assassin, etc., and often result in newer players thinking their class is weak or obselete, when in most cases it is just a very toxic superior player using their advantage to rack up kills easier than general targeting.
     
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  5. Foodcourt

    Foodcourt Global MOD

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    Agree with everything you said here. Do you have any suggestions or things that could be added/changed to the protocol to help combat this issue?
     
  6. Forleb

    Forleb Well-Known Member

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    I don't even know what the protocol is, or that there even was to begin with lol. If the rest of the team agrees with what I said too then it's ultimately up to them what to take from it, if they change the current protocol.
     
  7. Signifies

    Signifies Well-Known Member

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    The problem with this is you have random *****es that hide in the flagroom and do stupid ****. You hide out and heal your team in the flagroom? Targetted. You flagshoot? Targeted. You talk ****? Targetted. Continue to annoying me when I'm fighting other people in a 3v1? You're getting targetted until you **** off. You have bunch of randoms or general players who do annoying gameplay effecting ****. If it's not fun for me anymore I'm gonna make it not fun for you anymore. Then they complain when they get destroyed but continue to do the annoying **** that got them in their predicament in the first place. Now, spawn camping that's a different story. I get that. It's not cool. but unless you have more staff online or are paying attention closely. IDK how you're gonna fix that.

    As I've said before, this game is designed to implement a base amount of targeting. If I know a certain class or player is going a certain way as a defensive player, I'm going to do what I can offensively or defensibly to prevent them from reaching their objective. It's not targeting when you're playing the game objectively.
     
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  8. Forleb

    Forleb Well-Known Member

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    It isn't exactly targeting when the person you're killing instigated the situation to begin with. Essentially self defense with a kick to deter them from continuing their nonsense. All I can say is that if they persist just keep going until they chill or log out; both players are aggro so it can't be counted against either of you.
     
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  9. Larh

    Larh Active Member

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    I agree that it should be made clearer in the rules that targeting new players should be punished, I have seen many regs target new players over and over all while being very hostile in chat towards the new player. But it is still difficult to report as class targeting is used tactically. Perhaps encouraging other regs to report and record these situations and show to mods for staff usage. Also with the influx of new mods I feel like there are now more staff to watch over what is happening in games. Also I dont know if new players already get prompted, but it may be an idea to promt them with rules (or more in depth rules) either in chat or in a book in their inventory, and also state that if they feel they are being targeted they can use /report name
     
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  10. Signifies

    Signifies Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but some of these players have the cellular level of a dust mite. I can't tell you how many randoms I've farmed specifically because they keep doing the same stupid **** that's cheap.
     
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  11. Forleb

    Forleb Well-Known Member

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    There is always the option of making a new spawnbox that places players directly in front of the rules, instead of having the little side pods that are often overlooked. Changing the players themselves would be difficult simply because they think that's how Brawl works now, so I agree that higher staff presence would at least be a step in the right direction for protecting new players from targeters. An increase in staff activity would help a majority of CTF's issues, but they all do have lives.


    Bots will be bots, what can I tell you. All you can really hope for is that other regs will identify the bot and assist in containing it, if it remains hostile of course.
     
  12. Codebastian

    Codebastian Well-Known Member

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    Regarding to protocol, the rule does need to be spesific to better enforce it to avoid confusion.

    Honestly people just gotta be more aware of it, I sometimes find myself guilty and target randies more than others simply because I don’t know them. Perhaps it’s best just to have an announcement in chat simply reminding players to avoid doing it with the adjusted punishment.

    We should try to become more aware of targeting randies and perhaps take truces less ‘lightly’; avoid making and keeping truces.
     
    #12 Codebastian, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  13. Mnkynoodles

    Mnkynoodles Member

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    As a community, we just need to be more vigilant. If there is no vigilance, the randies will just get targeted. Alot of randies get targeted / targeting goes under the radar during 10 people on server hours. The randies get targeted because regulars are talking to other regulars not caring about flag, and they attack the regulars not realizing that they're just trying to chill. After, it's a spawn camp.
     
  14. Forleb

    Forleb Well-Known Member

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    Vigilance is key to any situation lacking staff presence, but you already know what I'm going to say about that. We could potentially increase the player limit for starting games to 12 or 14, for a higher chance of randoms either fighting each other instead of regs, or not-so-chill regs handling the randoms while others chill. Would also initiate credit earning 100% of the time, possibly inspiring some regs to capture or defend and also handle the hostile randoms.
     
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  15. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Well-Known Member

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    The reasons why "Targeting" is a problem;
    1. People saying they are being targeted when they are not. The reason why this is a problem is that it takes the impact out of the claim of individuals who are actually being targeted. The refinement for this is some form of rule to prevent people spamming "Stop targeting" in chat when they die.
    2. Friendlies. Not only are friendlies the majority of the people who complain about false-target allegations, they are also a main reason why individuals get targeted more; as if less people are killing friendlies (as you are a -, -, -, if you kill friendlies according to people) it increases the chance of individuals dieing constantly. I'm unsure of a refinement for this, as I personally don't mind people being friendly, however it does increase the chance of targeting.
    3. Certain class match-ups. The majority of the time I get told i'm targeting is when i'm chemist defence. It occurs whenever lets say a bulk offence is offending with a medic. I would majority of the times attempt to kill the medic offence first before the bulk offence (As medic can heal the damage done to bulk). I often get told this is specific targeting of an individual. I'm unsure if this is lack of skill, or knowledge of offending and PvP, however it shows how certain class match-ups will favour people to target certain classes. This problem can't really have a refinement, as it's natural to kill classes that is weak to yours in game.
     
  16. Mnkynoodles

    Mnkynoodles Member

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    Weren't you the one targeting friendlies at your flag that weren't caring about it at all and just chillin and then saying you're not jake when you have the same exact grammar. Unfortunate
     
  17. Forleb

    Forleb Well-Known Member

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    Advantage targeting is perfectly acceptable in the situation you mentioned at the end there. Offense may only come ever 2-3 minutes, and you are making a tactical decision to increase your chances of recovery. It becomes full fledged targeting when you are actively searching for the player and killing them on sight, as frequently as possible.
     
  18. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Well-Known Member

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    The only time I was active yesterday was for the PPM, I was informed with what you were saying though, lol. Unfortunate.

    Oh dear, this is exactly what I was talking about. I find it pretty hilarious, if not slightly embarrassing that the individual who creates a thread called "Change Targeting Protocol" is unsure about what targeting actually is. You have just explained one of my problems above; "1. People saying they are being targeted when they are not (You). The reason why this is a problem is that it takes the impact out of the claim of individuals who are actually being targeted". The individual playing on Shallowly was killing everyone, just because they were killing "friendlies" does not mean they were targeting, as they were doing the complete opposite by killing everyone. Unfortunate.

    Edit - Forgot to mention you also explained my problem 2 perfectly too. "2. Friendlies. Not only are friendlies the majority of the people who complain about false-target allegations (You), they are also a main reason why individuals get targeted more; as if less people are killing friendlies it increases the chance of individuals dieing constantly. Nice. Unfortunate.

    Yes, unfortunate that your thread has lost most, if not all credibility with your uncertainty about the matter, and also your claim that killing friendlies is targeting. However, thank you for providing evidence that individuals are still uneducated about what "targeting" actually is. Unfortunate.

    Yeah mate, however some people still don't understand that, or even know what targeting actually is.. I honestly think a step in a good direction is teaching people what targeting is, unfortunatly.
     
    #18 Northernlreland, Jan 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  19. Mnkynoodles

    Mnkynoodles Member

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    I see that going into a group of 5-10 people and specifically going for me when I'm just chillin and then after 5 lives of trying to kill me, without going for anyone else that are even trying to kill him, that that isn't targeting.
     
  20. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Well-Known Member

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    Well, how am I suppose to analyse that? It wasn't me, my points above still stand that your idea of targeting is incorrect, therefore making your thread incorrect.

    Lets make this clear.. it does not matter if you were "Just chillin" or not. Dieing when being friendly or hostile is not an excuse to say you were being targeted.

    I highly doubt this was true.
    Please say who these 5-10 people you were with, and the map you were on.
     
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