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Warzs Current State

Discussion in 'MC-WarZ' started by W81, Jan 17, 2020.

?

Should there be a ban wipe?

  1. Yes

    18 vote(s)
    56.3%
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. Yes but with some exceptions

    10 vote(s)
    31.3%
  1. W81

    W81 Banned

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    Yes i know this idea has been brought up numerous times recently over the past couple months but I still think it's important to talk about.
    Brawl is still overdue on another ban wipe. Yes I know before you click off or comment something like "Ideas been brought up multiple times and it's not happening." 99% of the brawl mainly the warz community is all in support of a server ban wipe. I think now is a perfect time for a server unban. It has been multiple months since the big "ban wave" of the banning of several well known members of the warz community. There has been a recent push over the last couple months of the revival of warz. Paul and the staff team have been pushing numerous rather large updates to warz and multiple new staff members introduced into the staff team.

    The problem with this is that Brawl's punishment system is severely outdated. I don't think there has ever been an update to punishment history involving permbanned players or the 3 ban protocol ever. There are rules written down but most of them are very vague when it comes down to permbanned players. It has always been the 3 ban rule, 3 accounts banned and you're permed for AT LEAST 6 MONTHS. Players in other gamemodes may think it's impossible to get 3 bans but with a warz player most of them play on multiple accounts a month and accounts are usually shared. 3 bans is way too many for someone to get permed. They should be only allowed either 1 or 2 bans before they're permed. Permbanned players also have to wait an absolutely absurd amount of time, 6 MONTHS. 6 months is insanely long for a player to get banned it's basically unheard of to hear any other server ban a player for 6 months. To put in perspective many other popular servers have a ban rule of usually 2 weeks - 1 month for players that have hacked. That is a reasonable amount of time for a player to wait to appeal and be unbanned to most people. 6 months to wait on a video game to get unbanned is completely insane. During those 6 months a lot can happen players can forget about the server, lose interest in the gamemode and etc. Brawl already has a small playerbase but when a pretty active player gets banned they have to 6 months to be unbanned. Now imagine multiple players get permed some for hacking but others for small things as a tpyes macro that doesn't open chat (lol). There would then be MULTIPLE players who would be on the server more often if they weren't banned or had to wait that ridiculously long 6 months. After your first perm you only get 1 more chance compared to the 3 other players is also unfair I know they should be punished extra but I mean 1 ban to 3 is just a huge difference especially when it's not stated anywhere in the rules.

    Warz is a gamemode where 99% of the active playerbase has been permbanned before. Im positive that if the players voted upon a ban wipe it would result in a landslide favoring a ban wipe. Keep in mind warz has a fairly small playerbase where basically everyone knows each other. With this size of a player base 10-15 permbanned players would severly affect how many people there are with ranks and fights there are on the server. Everytime I speak to a current warz player I always hear about the lack of fights and that it is usually dominated by 1 or 2 teams (usually cjs and the germans). It's hard to have a revival when numerous well known active players have been banned. I know these permed players have all done something to get banned which most of them immediately regret it but, making them wait 6 months is absolutely insane just to teach them a lesson not to hack.

    Warz never has a new players to begin with but the small playerbase just gets smaller by the month because of players getting banned every month and then having to wait 6 months. Over time the player base just keeps shrinking and it never grows so banning your players for 6 months is not a great idea.

    Hackers are at an all time low due to the vpn ban and more staff members then ever before. If there was a ban wipe these players that were permed before could now be monitored even easier by the staff since there is a ton of new staff members looking to rake up bans on the server for promotions etc.

    A ban wipe would also be good for the servers monthly revenue because the 10-15 players usually buy multiple accounts a month with ranks so that results to a ton of new server income which could be used to help expand the server even more with advertising etc.

    Staff just view a ban wipe as unbanning a couple of players but there are thousands of accounts that unbanned players are linked too that are banned for alt of somebody and they can't get it unbanned because there's barely any way to prove they don't have access anymore. It is much more then that it is a chance to give one final chance to players and to have players not have to appeal for numerous accounts for alt of etc.

    Most of the permbanned warz players were banned for even PROMOTING the server with posting of things such as montages and episodes that the server has to do nothing but let these players play and they product free advertisement for the server. Then they ban them for having such little things as a tpyes macro that doesnt open chat compared to one that does. They're literally making videos promoting your server and you ban them for something that doesn't open chat compares to open chat. This makes basically no difference in fights. It actually helps players because some people don't even have a simple macro or something that could /tpyes they could all use the laby tpyes macro and not have to have an insane gaming mouse set up or something.

    Keep in mind a ban wipe could actually happen the community just needs to vote and prove to the staff that it is really needed.
    @chickenputty
     
    #1 W81, Jan 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  2. Killpain

    Killpain New Member

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    #letsdoit
    WarZ needs new player's or it's going to die again. +1 for ban wipe
     
  3. Fenguin1

    Fenguin1 Active Member

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    **** it i'm down
     
  4. SoCool21

    SoCool21 7 Year McPvPer

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    If we have permbanned players who deserve to be unbanned, then this is an issue with our appeals protocol. We should address these issues by fixing our appeals protocol. Otherwise, we'll have the exact same issues a year after a ban wipe and people will want another one.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Bxnking

    Bxnking Banned

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    There's a massive issue with your appeals protocol. Good players are kept banned with no leniency. It's stupid. People deserve to be treated like players, not numbers.Used to be better when TS was around and you weren't treated like crap in your appeals.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  6. tchuckraider

    tchuckraider Brawler

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    I have several friends who have had appeals open for over 10 days for accounts that were banned while they were permbanned. They are currently unbanned, yet their alts are still being held up, can you explain a way to speed up the appeals system? I think a ban wipe with certain exceptions (players who have alted recently) would work well.
     
  7. W81

    W81 Banned

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    It wouldn't really be a banwipe if all players weren't unbanned. It'd have to be everyone to be an efficent server banwipe because those players would be pissed even though they alted. Basically the only player that has alted anytime recently has been nunya.
     
  8. Urnes

    Urnes Active Member

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    Yeah, I waited ten days lmao
     
  9. Meduusa

    Meduusa New Member

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    if there's a ban reset can i have like 4 months but stay banned since i alted? idk i feel like waiting 6 months is way to long so thats why i alted
     
  10. SoCool21

    SoCool21 7 Year McPvPer

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    The vast majority of appeals are handled within a week. However, there are some exceptions - usually when I am busy and am unable to help staff handle appeals.

    Keep in mind that we are only a small server with a limited staff team. Unfortunately, we can't handle every appeal on time. The only way we can speed this process up would be by promoting more staff - but there are only so many people we can promote.

    In other words - only unban people who deserve to be unbanned. This is what the appeals system should be achieving - and if it isn't, then we need to address the appeals system rather than completely unbanning everyone.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Bxnking

    Bxnking Banned

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    Then ****ing address it, and realize you're keeping unfairly banned players banned.
     
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  12. W81

    W81 Banned

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    The main point of the unban is to give players another chance and bring more players onto the server. The appeal system does need to be changed but there would need to be ban reset before a new appeal or ban protocol so that people aren't judged or accused of their history. It would also make it so people are more aware of the rules when they get banned and there's actually WRITTEN rules that are in place not just different rules for everyone which someone admins *cough* change for certain players depending on their past history.
     
  13. tchuckraider

    tchuckraider Brawler

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    The point of my reply was to ask you why it hasn't been reformed and what measures could be taken to improve it.
     
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  14. JayOG

    JayOG Ex-wArZ MoD (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    Every question is an answer with a dodge apparently
     
    #14 JayOG, Jan 19, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  15. W81

    W81 Banned

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    Brawl staff would rather leave a problem alone and not do anything about it unless it's seriously needed and last minute. They constantly ignore their player base and just do what they feel "works well" or is easiest for them when in reality there needs to be a change. It also doesn't help they don't have an official rule system so staff members often use these blurry lines to ban or take advantage of players. For example if you ask a staff member to a see a rule of why you were banned they will never show you it because it's not a set in stone rule.
     
  16. SoCool21

    SoCool21 7 Year McPvPer

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    So far, I have not seen any suggestions for changes to the protocol that are significant enough to warrant a ban wipe. Every suggestion I have seen can be added and work alongside legacy punishment histories without any problems. If you have any suggestions that would require a ban wipe to work properly, please let me know.

    Our rules cannot cover every single possible scenario where a punishment should be given. All common scenarios are covered by our rules.

    Most other servers take a player's punishment history into consideration when punishments are given. Players who frequently break the rules will be punished more harshly than those who break the rules frequently. Also, all players are held towards the same rules. If there are any specific examples of someone being punished for something, and someone else getting away with it, let me know and I will address it.

    One of the biggest reasons why this is the case is people rarely bring up any good examples of people who deserve to be unbanned.

    When people do bring up specific examples of people who a ban wipe should benefit, I look into their case and see what improvements need to be made. Very recently, we discussed a permbanned player's case in an SMod meeting and decided to significantly reduce the amount of time they needed to wait before they could be unbanned. No changes to the protocol have been made, because the circumstances around this player's ban were very rare. I can't give more details than this, because we do not discuss individual appeals publicly.

    When these threads are made, no-one mentions anyone specifically. If you mention anyone specifically then I will look into their case, and act appropriately.

    I am planning on proposing a full rewrite of the rules and protocol. However, this will mostly address modernising how our punishment system works. I want to be able to address the concerns that the WarZ community have, but without specific examples, I cannot do that.

    I have given my general thoughts on the main thread, and have directly answered all answerable questions or concerns posted in response to this thread. However, when these questions or concerns amount to "brawl staff bad" or "appeals system bad" or "punishment system bad", I cannot give a proper answer to that.

    If you want a direct answer, give me a direct concern. If you give me something that is the equivalent of "Brawl staff bad", I will respond with the equivalent of "no we're not".

    We do have an official rule system - https://rules.brawl.com.

    We also have an accompanying protocol for how staff should be enforcing these rules. This protocol (the staff handbook) is private, but all staff members are expected to memorise it. New staff members are told to read the handbook before enforcing the rules (or at least - I was, and every staff member I've ever interviewed has been).

    If there are any specific examples of a staff member not explaining which rule you violated, please let me know.
     
  17. JayOG

    JayOG Ex-wArZ MoD (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    I don't think what we're trying to say makes us sound like we cannot speak, "Brawl staff bad" nice way to approach it. A ban reset might help, it might not. But the appealing system and the overall permban system has flaws which is his main point. There are rules that NEED to be rewritten. Ex: The macro rule, these little rules give loop holes to ban someone, there have been multiple tages where people used them and didn't get banned cause they put a black screen over them. WarZ players asked for this many times but I guess you weren't in the mix. I don't want another bs answer, people want some action taken. It doesn't need to be an outcry for something to get changed, SoBool21. If you put more effort in listening than having grudges it might get you into peoples mind and wants
     
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  18. Bxnking

    Bxnking Banned

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    THIS^^^^ Jay I fully agree with this. The main reason half of us stay banned is because the people handling our bans see us at rule breakers who deserve to serve 6 months, rather than as people. I remember back in the days of TS, if you got banned you went and sat down with a mod/smod in TS, and you were heard. Not just written off as a number. Those were the days when we had tens of channels and tons of players. Guess times change as we get smaller, brawl gets less personal with us...or is that the opposite of how things work.
     
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  19. Fets

    Fets Member

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    Please don’t act like all we say is “brawl staff bad” and i do agree with jay on the fact that you haven’t directly answered every question you’ve been asked, and i do agree that waiting 6 months to appeal is a crazy amount of time for breaking rules on a minecraft server, that’s why so many people quit when they get banned - there’s no point in trying to appeal given the fact you must wait 6 months, hell i gave 2 of my accounts to kbz in october and have to wait 6 months to appeal those, like it was a dumb mistake, 6 months is an extremely long time to wait
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  20. W81

    W81 Banned

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    I completely agree, 6 months is insanely long to get banned from a game/server for there's literally nothing even remotely close to having a player wait 6 months. Other popular servers usually ban players for 2 weeks to a month or two which is a reasonable amount of time and would work fine on brawl. 6 months is extremely long for a player to ban a server and it just so long especially for players who have already been permed before they get 1 ban and boom they have to wait another 6 months to month.
     
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