1. Welcome to the Brawl website! Feel free to look around our forums. Join our growing community by typing /register in-game!

Idea New Class Idea: Thief

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Ugianskis, May 18, 2020.

?

Should thief be added?

  1. Yes!

    37.9%
  2. Mabye/Needs Work

    51.7%
  3. No!

    24.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Ugianskis

    Ugianskis Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Ratings:
    +24
    THIEF

    2 Steak

    Stone Sword

    Full Leather Armor

    3 Swap Sticks


    Abilities

    The thief class will be able to swap any player's items out of their inventory into its inventory. For example if you hit a heavy with a Swap Stick you will take whatever that player is holding into your own hotbar replacing their item with a stick!


    Thief

    Thief will have speed 1 to allow it to catch up to people or run away. Medics will be able to heal off any stolen items. If you get restored as a thief your stolen items will dissipate and your thief sticks will come back. If a medic full restores the class that was stolen from they shall receive their items back.


    Why?

    I think thief would allow for a lot of strategy and gameplay changes having to do with the fact that you can get your items stolen. Also could have a major impact on recov. Stealing someone's sword allows for the assassin to be even more OP yay!


    Extras

    Just as a pre option maybe replacing the stolen items with a wooden sword so they are not completely defenceless if they lose their sword.

    Edit:
    I would also like to throw in some feedback already
    1. A cooldown on swiping items; maybe a 3 sec timer between swaps
    2. Items you cant use when you swap them. You cant use player abelites but you can use item abilities. Ex. Stealing a pyro bow will still shoot explosive arrows but stealing the axe does not do more damage to players on fire or frenzy.
    3. If you happen to swap steaks off the enemy the max steak should be 1-2 depending on balance.​
     
    • Like x 5
    • Agree x 1
    • Winner x 1
    • Creative x 1
    • ELITE Honor x 1
    #1 Ugianskis, May 18, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  2. FireTurtle

    FireTurtle Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    25
    Ratings:
    +24
    +1
     
    • ELITE Honor ELITE Honor x 1
  3. Slingh

    Slingh Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    73
    Ratings:
    +43
    I like it a lot. +1
     
  4. Greenfoot5

    Greenfoot5 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2015
    Messages:
    36
    Ratings:
    +19
    Discord:
    Greenfoot5#2535
    I think it could do with two things to not make it too OP. They don't have to be added together, but when they was brought up in the ctf community server, people were quick to go from, idea to Pyro with elf bow flight and arrow stacks from archer.

    1st. A new steal, wipes the previous inventory. This means that if I steal an elf's inventory, then steal an archer, I lose all elf based items.

    2nd I gain item abilities, but not class abilities. This means that if I steal from a Pyro, I get a Pyro bow, which when fully charge, still ignites enemies, but I don't gain the true damage to enemies on fire. If I steal from an elf, I gain all the bow abilities, but I can't regen arrows. Abilities like the shield and pyro frenzy you'd have to decide if that's a class or item ability.
     
  5. Ugianskis

    Ugianskis Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Ratings:
    +24
    I agree with your 2nd idea but i do not agree with the 1st. I think that if i am a thief i should be able to steal 2 items from different class like medics healing and maybe a iron sword or something idk just i think the combos of stolen items would be fun and yes i agree this may have to be tweaked to not be too op
     
  6. ChubBub360

    ChubBub360 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    22
    Ratings:
    +4
    Great idea, just make sure it can’t swap things like a max dwarf sword or assassinate without some sort of limiting factor
     
  7. StormNox

    StormNox Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2017
    Messages:
    260
    Ratings:
    +29
    The class sounds fun with a nice interesting ability, similar to scout.

    However, stealing an item essential to a class, e.g. a ninja's sharp 5 golden sword, would then render the class very inefficient for dealing damage. A strategy to deal with that (aside from replacing the stolen item with a wooden sword) might be to steal the durability of the weapon (dependent on the number of times the thief hits the victim while the victim is holding a weapon) which would reduce the durability of the stolen item and the item with the stolen durability would reappear in the thief's inventory- E.g. a thief attacks a heavy who is holding a diamond sword who has full durability; the thief hits the heavy x number of times and steals a 50 of the sword's durability. Then the thief would have the sword with 50 of the sword's durability in the inventory and the heavy would have 1562-50=1002 durability. (I know the durability of the heavy's diamond sword is still massive but it it is just a suggestion and is therefore subject to change). This is just in case some players are solo capping the flag without a medic and got their items stolen or the medic dies on the journey :frowning:

    Another problem is that the thief might be able to steal 3 different items from various other class and then become op (e.g. thief stealing ninja sword, archer bow and mage damage spell). A way to combat this might be to have a cooldown time between stealing an item and the next time the thief steals an item.

    Overall, this class has the potential to be very well designed and balanced; just needs a few more changes and then we will probably see it implemented soon.
     
  8. auromelt

    auromelt CTF Mod ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ // Green Fox & Hedgehog Lover

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Ratings:
    +146
    Discord:
    auromelt#4560
    Lol this would be so annoying to play against. Some thoughts:
    1) maybe place a cooldown on swapping sticks (cuz u have 3) this is so that thief wouldn't be that annoying when it comes to swapping people's items out of their inventory cuz u can just do it again and again.
    2) restriction of stealing steak (eg. Only be able to steal 1 steak max)

    Overall, great, simplistic idea with great gameplay opportunities. I think it could be further streamlined, perhaps add a few more abilities to make it more unique. Cool idea though, +1
     
  9. Ugianskis

    Ugianskis Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Ratings:
    +24
    I like the cooldown idea of not being able to do it back to back and i also forgot to state that some times wont be able to be used by thief.

    Same here i like the cooldown idea i think that would make it a little more balanced and not ruin a persons day also your other part of limiting steak i think it should be 2 steak just because it should actually be detrimental to lit the thief hit you while you are holding steak.
     
  10. Pizze

    Pizze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    471
    Ratings:
    +241
  11. Forleb

    Forleb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +53
    Discord:
    Forleb#6785
    This could prove very useful in the meta. I foresee offensive pushes with a soldier & thief being quite effective, as the soldier can distract a pyro long enough for the thief to steal the axe and render it 100% useless. Also taking an archer's bow if they try to recov, taking medic webs in tight flag rooms, taking an elf's wind as they try to escape the flag room... many possibilities. Wouldn't mind seeing it added.
     
  12. Avalanche14

    Avalanche14 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +1
    I like the class idea however i believe it needs a little tweak with the swap mechanic because you don't want the effected class to just sit there with a wooden sword. Therefore, there's needs to be an incentive on the effected side in the event they lose their primary weapon in order to stay in the game. If I'm an archer and i lose my bow or a heavy that loses my diamond sword it would probably be more beneficial to just respawn and get all your items back rather than walk around with a wooden sword. Perhaps giving them some sort of buff for the duration of the swap? I'm not sure but just throwing ideas out there.

    Also, just a little thought but i think this class has potential to be extremely toxic. Just imagine a thief coming up to you, you switch off your primary to not lose it, and you continue to get bashed with a sword. The moment you pull out your primary the thief could just take it away rendering you 100% useless and no way to defend yourself in a 1v1. I think the easiest fix here is that if you hit a player with your sword your stick goes on a short cooldown for 5s or something to prevent this form occurring. This will incentives theif players to actually strike when no seen rather then just rushing at players.
     
  13. Ugianskis

    Ugianskis Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Ratings:
    +24
    So here is the thing why would you ever want to buff the enemy? Yes Thief is a toxic class and if it were allowed in matches it would be a 1 limit. swaping the main item on a class and making them respawn is very effective. for your team i dont want them to have an incentive to stay. If i played thief i would take the buffed heavy pooping on our off take the sword make him respawn plus not have buffs. it gives an easy fix to bulk defence and solving a pyro in tight flagroom.
     
  14. Mehgur

    Mehgur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    187
    Ratings:
    +81
    swap the flag out of their inventory, remove scout. Gg best recovery class
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Avalanche14

    Avalanche14 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +1
    I understand what you're going for but you have to consider those that will just play the class and roam around not really targeting the enemy team's bulk defence. This is when it could potentially be the most toxic and i think its important to recognize what a class like that could introduce into ctf. The idea of 'if you lose your primary you should just respawn' just doesn't sit well with me and that's why i think there should be more of an emphasis on creating an incentive for those hit with the stick to continue to play rather than just respawning.
     
  16. Ugianskis

    Ugianskis Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Ratings:
    +24
    Why Does respawning not sit well with you? Yes i agree in casual games this class could make it hell with like 6 thief's you will never want to leave spawn. But then again it is a premium class. It wont be free. 6 engis running around in casual is legit the most annoying thing besides an entire team playing mage on defense or roaming. My point is you only see these things once in a while. In a comp scenario this class could change the whole meta with capping both offensively and defensively. And imo thats what brawl needs. Brawl needs a class to shake things up so its not the same thing every match.
     
  17. Avalanche14

    Avalanche14 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +1
    Well i think it's probably because if you lose your primary you're just kind of stuck in a limbo. It's almost like a weird instakill where instead of dying you end up in purgatory where you can chose to fight in the same life or respawn adding to your death toll. In addition you have no idea when you will get your stuff back so it could take seconds or minutes which is valuable playing time. Maybe the person can be given back their stuff after 30s? or a minute? just as an incentive to stay while the thief keeps what they got?

    And in terms of the whole meta thing this seems like a class addition to address community concern where as I'm not sure it is beneficial to bringing new players in. I can't imagine playing your first game, just learning the mechanics, and someone hits you with a stick and now you're down a primary and have little to no understanding why. Some of the posts I've read on this forums have looked at trying to bring new players and and keep them which i think should be a priority as well. I don't want to step on any toes here but I'd like to keep in mind a newer player's experience when bringing in a class like this.
     
  18. Greenfoot5

    Greenfoot5 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2015
    Messages:
    36
    Ratings:
    +19
    Discord:
    Greenfoot5#2535
    I said previously that I liked the class, and I do. But now that people have pointed out it's basically a "you got your items stolen? Respawn or go find a medic." You need a way to counter this class. Assassin, who forces you to respawn has to major flaws. One is blocking, and the other is that you die instantly to an attack. The Thief has no real drawbacks as such. So, what if you could only steal from someone, if you're behind them? You'd have to be stealthy, but it also makes it much harder to play, and gives it a direct counter.

    On the front of this making new players leave because of the steep learning curve, we can't shun away from making new classes. Instead, mechanics must be implemented to allow them to have a better experience. I'm not saying make it easier for them, but allow them to have a better experience, or feel like they're making an impact.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. StormNox

    StormNox Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2017
    Messages:
    260
    Ratings:
    +29
    What if you implement a new change which is that the player who got their items stolen by a thief could steal their stolen item back by hitting the thief x amount of times. Then it would make the thief class do what thieves in real life actually do; steal and run away. Or maybe they can get their items back after like 30 seconds or something.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Dequoy

    Dequoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    108
    Ratings:
    +50
    ...was this idea brainstormed from 5ive_Head's Heavy Rework idea by chance? :upside_down:

    I think it's interesting to have an item swapping ability...whether it be for a whole new class or assigned as a change to an existing class, even if limited like in that Heavy Rework idea.

    As for Thief, there are LOTS of variables and I have a ton of "What if?" questions about that easily complicate things.

    First and foremost is the infamous Dwarf sword. Is it the Dwarf levels that make the weapon so deadly? Or is it the weapon itself? What if a Thief swaps a Dwarf sword? Will the Thief become a fast running juggernaut, or will the Dwarf have an ultra powerful wooden sword? Will they both miss out on all that built up level-gaining power?

    What if a Thief swaps assassination powder? Is it the killing training that only Assassins have received that makes them kill in an instant, or is it the fact that they wield that mysterious red powder? If it's the powder, does the Thief become vulnerable after?

    What if a Mage hoe is stolen? Will it cast the spell, and if so, with what cooldown meter? The one that may already be employed for that Assassination powder that was stolen before? What if arrows are stolen? HOW are arrows stolen? They're almost never held in hand, but if they were somehow obtained by a swap/steal action, would the entire stack become the wood sword? What about Elf arrows? Does the Elf no longer get any arrows at all, or do they replenish and replace that wooden sword? Would the Thief achieve renewable arrows instead? What about Ninja pearls? Engineer TNT? LOL What about the Archer's sword? Everyone knows Archers NEED their stone sword! :grinning:

    Again a very cool idea for the PvP and vanilla-friendly items, but when it comes to the class abilities that are intimately tied to the items they use then things get bizarre. Would redstone dust make a Thief invisible, or enable a Thief to Assassinate? If this is based on which class wields it rather than by some unique tag that only makes the two very different items only look the same, then there would be a ton more coding work to allow a Thief to join the fray.

    Specifics can get lengthy, but if they're all mapped out then it paints a much better picture of what to expect of a Thief in greater detail. In short I like the concept and it would be a lot of fun to play, but I think there is just way too much complexity to have the deceivingly simple idea work properly. :slight_frown:
     
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
Idea Class Idea : Tank Capture the Flag Apr 3, 2020
Idea Class Idea: Orc Capture the Flag Mar 27, 2020
Idea New Class Idea: Farmer Capture the Flag Mar 26, 2020
Idea New Class Idea: Hunter Capture the Flag Mar 22, 2020
Idea New Class Idea: Fisherman Capture the Flag Feb 22, 2020