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Idea Decrease Max Server Size. Please.

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Ninsanity, May 25, 2020.

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Should the max server size be decreased?

  1. Yes

    69.2%
  2. No

    30.8%
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  1. Ninsanity

    Ninsanity Yoshi Legend and Medic Main

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    Make it at most a 20v20, or preferably, in my opinion, a 15v15. 25v25's makes offense way too difficult, incredibly annoying, and super frustrating. If the max server size is say 15v15, then there's a good opportunity to have two full servers for a long period of time. That allows us to have a relatively newer player server, and the regular player server, which allows newer players to get experience without getting destroyed immediately.

    Please just decrease the max server size, dealing with 5 assassins, 6 pyros, and 4 archers is just too much.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  2. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree! As well please add class restrictions for casual depending on the amount of players online. It’s completely ridiculous and absurd when you have a group of about 5-6 low tier crafters who have to resort to playing classes such as assassin to boost their unfortunate ego!!! Perhaps for every 10 players online make it so there can only be maximum 1 assassin and 1 archer.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #2 Daveeeeeeeee, May 25, 2020
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  3. Salty_Ivan

    Salty_Ivan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this would be the case, I feel like there would just be a mix of experienced and inexperienced players in both servers, and the impact experienced players can have is way more noticeable in a smaller game. In some 10v10 or even 15v15 casuals, one experienced player can kinda just steamroll through everything, and it might not be fun for newer players trying to defend. It could be the opposite for newer players wanting to offend though.
    What I'm getting at is that it probably wouldn't be a given that newer players would be able to get more experience without getting destroyed.
     
  4. wulfi98

    wulfi98 Member

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    You are just going to reward solo players in a game that's meant to be a teamwork-based game.

    I can see how playing offense against 15 people on defense is not fun, but neither is playing defense when you are outnumbered by the opposite teams offense. I hate games that last 5 minutes where you get rolled X-0 or vice versa.
    This is more a balancing and lack of teamwork issue. Small games are just boring. Capturing the flag is the objective and literally wins you the game, it should not be easy.
    Furthermore, I also think it's going to kill the playerbase in the long run, even if only slightly - especially once the whole corona stuff is over and we are back to lower numbers.
    Not to mention how you'll usually have at least like 30% of the players be afk or not playing objectively anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #4 wulfi98, May 25, 2020
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  5. Ugianskis

    Ugianskis Member

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    So I agree that offence should not be easy but i have played offence my entire ctf life and it is becoming very difficult to play and actually have fun playing it in casual. If I walk into the flag room and their is a Dwarf, pyro and 4 assassin not to mention any good ninjas their i just loose all motivation to cap. It is becoming very frustrating killing the assassin and spawn is 10 blocks away and the assassin in back going for me again but this time i have a a frenzy and a dwarf to also deal with. Your point about coronation is useless in casual. All the "good" players are either playing defence or truced with half the lobby you cant ever get cordnation unless you are in a call.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. wulfi98

    wulfi98 Member

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    That is basically one of my points though. It's a coordination issue because you won't find a lot of coordination in casual. So you need to fix that and not enable not-coordinating even more by lowering the player limit and thus enabling solo capturing instead.

    And it goes both ways, like I said. Playing defense while being outnumbered is not much fun either. Short 5 minute games suck and are plain boring. However, I definitely agree that the case of offense facing the bigger struggle happens a lot more frequently - which it should in my opinion. To the extent you described? No. But that is not the norm either.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    That is very normal for any game that exceeds a 40 player count ngl to you. Tbh it’s often more like 2 pyros and 6 assassins.
     
  8. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    "Offense is supposed to be hard but I don't like it because it's hard" like bruh literally play Chemist. They always seem to be able to hydroplane through defenses on every map and get the flag too haha #balanced

    Also it has literally been worse than this. Pyro used to have an instakill, Dwarf used to have unlimited levels and Engineers used to be able to place turrets literally right next to the flag or could wall off the entire flagroom with a turret armada. So I don't really see your point here.

    Also who plays Dwarf lol??? He gets destroyed by Chemist and takes so long to go anywhere or level up you can literally die multiple times getting to the flagroom or if you do you can get lag-assassinated right after you get there. Or you just get poked to 1 heart by a Mage abusing bad flagroom design which makes that possible. Fun stuff

    Whenever the moon is highest in the sky on the 4th autumnal equinox and I rise from my coffin to play CTF I play defense. It's "incredibly annoying and super frustrating" when I don't have enough help in the flagroom due to too few players leading to me not defending at all because I don't want to bother fighting some Chemist main and 2 medics. This is characteristic of 15v15s or games with even smaller numbers of players. The more players you have the more people will be defending the flag. This (sort of) equalizes skill gaps and actually makes the game feel more like a battle arena over an objective (as it should) instead of 'I picked Chemist good luck lawl'.

    My response to this is basically what wulfi said although I would add that I happen to enjoy longer games with lots of players. I think they're more intense, interesting, and fun. Also the large number of players gives inexperienced or just really terrible players (me) a chance to do something just due to the sheer amount of things that are going on, which is good. Extended match length also lets players become more familiar with maps, classes etc. and really lets you get into the game. That's a good thing.
     
    #8 EmperorTrump45, May 25, 2020
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  9. Greenfoot5

    Greenfoot5 Member

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    I feel that 15v15 would be too small. You want to save those smaller numbers for PPMs where people can be organised, in casual, you want a buffer amount, to ensure that those AFK players, or players not playing "properly" can do their thing, while the rest of the game runs smoothly. Higher numbers also mean that any team balance is more likely to be evened out.

    However, 25v25 is currently too big. When I'm playing there's often one full server, and perhaps a 5v5. The 25v25 isn't fun for me cause it's too full, and the 5v5 isn't fun because it can be too one sided. Plus, if I wanted to earn credits, or work on achievements, I can't if it's under 10 people.

    If the high activity is due to Corona, then the server limits can be raised again after we're in the clear, it's a moot point.

    Overall, I'd suggest decreasing the server size to 20v20, as this still has the buffer, but also means that the server isn't too busy (as is the problem here, and the reason for the proposed change). I would not make it 15v15 as then the server is too small, and casual is certainly not organised enough for the server to feel full, when it's at capacity.
     
  10. Ugianskis

    Ugianskis Member

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    I have played off my entire ctf career and yes it has been harder before but that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm trying to make the point of in 25v25 there are just way too many defense players. I have no proof for his but in my experience there is in a 25v25 in casual around 20-30% of players going on offence. That's like 7 on a good and 5 on a bad day. Keep in mind the 10-15% truced or afk players that don't help the gameplay. This means 55-75% of player are either roaming or on defense. This is really dumb to play against. I personally still do it because well i know I'm kind of decent at it. But to a new player that goes against the 16 players either roaming or on defense that would suck. Also keep in mind i don't spend my time counting the number of players on offense in casual games. This is just from experience of the numbers of people on a 25v25 who go past mid way to not just kill ***** but go for the flag. The actual number of people that go for the flag and not just to kill the enemy's flag room in probably only like 3-4 people. That's just my thoughts on match size. I think they should be smaller. i think 20v20 is a good casual size.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. f1Zarpin

    f1Zarpin Member

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    Now that I've done some research and have seen multiple player POVs of this idea, I think it should be implemented. I prefer larger server sizes, probably because I'm a defense player. But now that I've seen how annoying it is for offensive players in casual to walk into a flag room by themselves and have to kite from 15 players just to make it 10 blocks with the flag then die, I realize that smaller server sizes need to happen.
     
  12. Forleb

    Forleb Well-Known Member

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