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Raid is dead

Discussion in 'Raid' started by 0racle, Aug 12, 2020.

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  1. 0racle

    0racle Former Raid and Reports Manager

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    This HUGE game changing update was a big flop, and it's not just because it's a beta version. Fixing bugs and making some minor adjustments won't make players flock to the server again. The "hardcore" raid server mentality has to go and as long as the staff keep trying to please the few old school players they have left, the server will remain dead.

    Grinding for stupid amounts of time and having some decently complex systems in place has left raid extremely exclusive for new players to join in and actually play the server to its fullest. You don't see noobs teaming up and making threatening teams, or random players tracking you or fighting very often, and that says a lot about raid's learning curve/player base. I think the server needs to be shifted more towards a SURVIVAL server, with unique, easy to learn, fun, and fast paced mechanics. There are so many ideas I've had over the years on what this could mean, but it's pointless to go into details about it when the community/management is so opposed to letting go of what little they have now.

    I think a lot of the popular aspects of raid, like raiding obviously, teams, pvp, koths, a tracking system, and warps should be maintained, but being stubborn about the vanilla/grinding mechanics needs to stop. A lot of the popular games today are extremely fast paced and easy to learn, which raid really isn't. I'll list a couple areas I personally think are causing raid to die, but truthfully I think the problem is the management. Their thinking is so outdated and not looking at growth. Pleasing the few people you have now isn't working, and quite frankly I don't think you're even doing a very good job at that either.

    Maybe a better raid manager would help things, as I've heard from several staff/players that the current one isn't exactly popular, or maybe including more people into the big decision making/planning of the server is needed. Regardless, I don't think it really matters unless you give up the old and hopefully welcome the new. The risk of losing the little players you have now in hopes of bringing in more new people has to be taken, it's been dead for too long.

    Anyways here's the issues I see:
    - The grind is too much, afking/repetition isn't fun. Losing sucks, make it easier to recover
    - Tracking is too tricky to learn for new players, and the current changes make it even worse. Simplify it/rework it entirely
    - Vanilla is boring. Custom enchants/mobs/biomes, unique skills/mechanics, custom items/crafting are cool and fun
    - Staff are boring. Be fun/chill, add events, don't be nazis


    I really don't see this thread going over well, as these ideas have never gone well in the past, but what else are you waiting for? I'd rather play something new with many players than twiddling my asshole on a dead server. The thing is, there's barely any non faction survival servers out there, and I think raid could become popular if they update and become cool and hip.
     
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  2. Jeenss

    Jeenss Ex-Raid Mod

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    Yeah, I agree with this. Upgrading to 1.16 is pointless if you stick by the old mechanics that make it unplayable for new players.
     
  3. CalledRainer

    CalledRainer Well-Known Member

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    a) Had it been so easy to change things, why havent YOU or EIL gotten **** done? Apparently there must be more to it than just blaming the current Raid Manager. By far i dont agree with all what Carno did but at least he got the 1.16 "Update" on its tracks. Something YOU AND EIL have failed to do as raid server managers. Be it because you were afraid of raid dying because of it or be it for some other reason.
    Its always easy to come back and **** on everything that has happened. You wont be able to persuade me that you could have gotten out a freaking BETA map without ANY DUPE GLITCH. Its SHEER IMPOSSIBLE when skipping 7 NEW MINECRAFT VERSIONS AT ONCE. So many exploits and bugs have occured over 7 mc versions. Just as much that some of the old for 1.8 coded plugins simply didnt work properly.

    Dont tell me you would have known that there was going to be a shop plugin glitch which would allow you to take the items from the shop interface. These things are simply not predictable. Just as the enderpearl dupe glitch where the vanilla cooldown and the serverside 15 sec cooldown simply collided. Just like the shop repair glitch which EVERYONE was aware of yet everyone INCLUDING YOU was unable to adress it and find a proper solution.

    b)Yet i do agree that a lot of changes have to be made, in order to get everything in place. Gold is simply WAY too common, Tridents ruin pvp, and getting p4, unbreaking 3, depthstrider books and whatever else for 1 single freaking emerald is just WAAAAYYY too broken as to not adress is as you suggested in your thread of yesterday.

    How would you like to make raid more survival? If you want to make it more survival you would have to have 1 year+ maps in order to make it worth for survival players to build and play. This is a seperate server concept, which may be worth trying out, but it wouldnt work out in combination with raid.
     
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  4. CoCaptainBlue

    CoCaptainBlue Raid Mod | Team Manta | Assistant Fridge Manager

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    Changes will always need to take palcewhen as Calledrainer said we are skipping 7 versions of minecraft. Thatswhy we have a beta map. We are listning to all comments from the community and will be making changes acordingly.
    This is bascially targetting a survival / (kind of) factions community. I understand it takes specific people to learn raid and we are working to get better understanding to new players.

    I just want to ask, Is this a proper opinion, and one that alot of people have said?

    Or is it pernsoal?

    Anyway, Thank you for your suggested areas that need changing. Hopefully more people will comment and we can get a better idea of where eveyones at
     
  5. Carnotauros

    Carnotauros Raid Manager

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    tldr; I agree with most of the points you made but please stop throwing shade on me, thank you
    If we were just "trying to please a few old school players", we would never have updated the server to 1.16 in the first place.
    I agree with this, but it's hard to find a balance between a unique, easy to learn, fun and fast-paced survival server, and raid's mechanics - if you have any ideas on how, be my guest.
    Again: if we were just trying to please the old players, we wouldn't have updated. Also PLEASE stop throwing shade at me, it's obvious that you still don't like me, but stop shoving it up in everyone's faces - it's extremely annoying. I'm fine with criticism, and I can admit that this BETA map has been a bit of a mess, but right now you're just constantly pushing me down and it really does not help the current situation.
    Agreed
    This is moving away from an "easy to learn survival server" - make up your mind. I don't think this is the right way for raid to go.
    I'm guessing you're implying that we enforce the rules too harshly? While I agree that a bit of toxicity is good for raid, some other stuff has to be kept clean, such as racism, homophobia etc. I personally don't really enforce toxicity in chat, unless it gets on a personal/threatening/racist level.

    Regarding events, I've been extremely busy with getting the BETA map under control, so I haven't really had the time to host any, but again: if you have any ideas for events, I'm happy to hear them.
     
    #5 Carnotauros, Aug 13, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
  6. 0racle

    0racle Former Raid and Reports Manager

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    First off, I'm basing my views of the staff team/management from what I've heard it's been like recently. I've heard that managers were given more control over the changes they can make and devs are working more with the managers than before. When I was around it was this dumbass ladder system that made it impossible to get anything done or communicate properly. I believe this is less of an issue now, which is why I'm being fairly aggressive in wanting change - because it's a lot easier to do from what I've heard. And this isn't me coming across as salty or toxic or whatever, it's hopeful that raid can possibly become something more now.

    I've heard from direct sources that this map was incredibly rushed and hardly tested. That's a huge piss off and could have prevented some of the big glitches that happened. Sure updating these many versions will cause problems, but that's why it needs to be extremely tested and not pushed out so quickly! It was put together in about a week from what I've heard, which is incredibly unrealistic. This needed to be fought for as it clearly isn't setting the server up for success. I don't know who's decision it was, but surely the management has to be responsible for some of this, especially when the planning of it was extremely sloppy too.

    I think it should be an entirely new concept tbh - raid is dead and brawl needs to move on from it imo. Looking at other successful gamemodes, non vanilla, unique mechanics are what's fun, and I think a survival server in a setting like this could be fun. I want custom skills, items, enchantments, mobs, biomes, raiding and all that stuff. I'm not sure where tracking / soup pvp fits into all of it, but I don't think people are really interested in that stuff anymore. A unique and modern survival experience could be really appealing to the current demographics of minecraft, and I don't think anything else exists like it, which could be promising.

    I don't think new players even want to learn these old mechanics though. We can shove it into their faces all we want, but it's just not appealing. Most of the new players play the server as a straight up vanilla server and build bases near spawn without warping/tracking/pvping. People don't look up hardcore survival servers to play, they want fun, fast paced games to play, right? Even factions are able to do this as a non minigame mode. Now I don't want raid to become a factions server, but I think a raiding server with a lot of customization / non vanilla features could be promising.

    I've had more than a few people tell me this, and I didn't come back here to get into any beef or anything tbh. I have no issues with carno any more. Staff and players have told me that they don't agree with his organization/ideas and more than anything, I just feel that raid needs a new direction regardless of who is in charge. With successful growth tho needs to be organization and good leadership.

    Honestly, I don't think brawl should listen to the few players they have left, they need to reach the new ones. Look at how successful hypixel is, they're extremely modern and creative, and it clearly is able to bring in old/new players all the time. They are shifting with the tastes of the community, and brawl should do the same.

    I don't have any beef with you lol. I'm going off of what people have told me who are working with you / under you, and the environment doesn't sound like it's set up for success. The only reason why I'm pissed off is because brawl in general - not just you- absolutely screwed the pooch on executing such an important update. A beta map for something so important is a dog**** idea. It needed to be damn flawless before releasing it to the public. A possibly controversial & TOTALLY UNIQUE update to the MC community was given to players half asses and full of bugs. This isn't fun, and no one cares if it's a beta map. Think about the possibly new players who look up 1.16 survival servers and find this, just to see the 4 players online right now and a game full of bugs. Will they be understanding that it's a beta map? Probably not, they'll just keep looking and won't wait around another month or so.
    The entire raid philosophy needs to be scrapped, not balanced really. I think some features can stay, but to balance them around old player's opinions or traditions hasn't worked in the past. It needs to be new new new. You need more than just updating to the current vanilla version.

    I don't have any beef with you, the update's execution was just truly embarrassing and it's a big piss off.
    You can have custom mechanics that are easy to learn. Custom crafting / enchantments with tooltips than explain things are really easy to pick up, but give a really cool experience to players. Look at some faction servers or even skyblock on hypixel. They have a lot of custom features but they're all really easy to learn. I think raid could include this into a survival server without it being as janky as tracking is to learn.
    Obviously the chat needs to be kept clean, but the staff just seems incredibly dry lol. They all seem to be like a knock off version of gehenna beam tbh. I think they need to lighten up on some of the minor enforcement and try to seem more enthusiastic with players and all. They almost seem to be above players in their attitudes from what I've noticed.
     
  7. TheMel0n

    TheMel0n 8 Year McPvPer

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    It's person, since Leon is my brother and defended me (Three years ago?) when 0racle scammed me of 40$ he has a grudge against Leon. I have asked countless of staff members what they think of Carno since I have gotten alot of false reports from people @Zekern @Iqn show me that proof the guy you said had the proof said he didn't have **** and that Leon never did anything.
     
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  8. 0racle

    0racle Former Raid and Reports Manager

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    How the **** are you still like this jesus christ. Actually autistic
     
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  9. Twhat

    Twhat Professional Tracker

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    This proves how stupid swedish are
     
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  10. CoCaptainBlue

    CoCaptainBlue Raid Mod | Team Manta | Assistant Fridge Manager

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    Imo.. 0racle said he has no beef with Carno. I will leave it at that and choose to believe him until I see otherwise. He has taken the time to help the server and I greatly appreciate that. I suggest we all do the same so we can move past this and continue the discussion.

    (ill drop some views and comments later today)
     
    #10 CoCaptainBlue, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  11. Vendor

    Vendor .gg/drip

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    What a mess

    I don't even think youre wrong about most of what you said. But refer back to what rainer said. You've been in the exact position Carno was before. You should know by now it isnt easy to try and make big changes.

    I thought for a while that raid needs some push to make it fresh and new in order to revive the gamemode. I always thought pushing more HCF mechanics was a better idea, since HCF and general factions are gamemodes thats been doing fairly well in 1.8 still. I dont know if i necessarily agree 1.16 was the only way forward, but i digress. Carno doing that alone was more than you did during your time in his position, and thats a fact. Not even saying this to entice flame or say you should have done more because i dont even fully think that. I just think its hypocritically for you to call him out on not doing anything when that update enough was more than you had done.

    Most of what you said is pretty correct, but you could have worded it better. This just wasnt true, though.
     
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  12. Itsa_Mii

    Itsa_Mii New Member

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    honestly i would love if they made it a survival mode. I mean that all i do is survive. I dont raid or track players. and i agree that they should make some custom features.
     
  13. TewClickz

    TewClickz Member

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    There shouldn't have been a "beta map" for this map. Sure, it allows for you guys to more easily find fixable bugs and glitches, but raid already has a difficult learning curve that takes time and dedication from the player to actually play it. You guys scared off new players more than you usually do by releasing this beta map. It would've been better to say, reset raid as it was (a 1.8 map), and maybe test 1.16 on another server that is only joinable by staff members.

    And that's another thing. I honestly feel like, besides you of course, there simply isn't a dedicated team to testing these things. I understand that there are DEVs and the few ADMINs and SMODs that occasionally hop on to test new server ideas, but for the most part it just feels like you all you guys do is get chat mods to join the team and they don't really do anything productive. Half of them usually quit when they get a promotion for whatever reason.

    I personally think trying to combine 1.8 mechanics with 1.16 gameplay was such a ****ty idea, for lack of a better word. I know most of you don't care about me specifically, but I haven't joined raid once since the new update, not once. I don't know where this ridiculous concoction of 8 minecraft versions for 1 server came from, but it doesn't feel like you guys listen at all lol.
     
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